I admittedly know and follow this stuff less than probably anyone commenting here and generally root for all Americans in championship races but... Does Engels really believe that Salazar was just trying to see how someone would react to being "brushed" with testosterone cream when he put it on his son??
really wrote:
I admittedly know and follow this stuff less than probably anyone commenting here and generally root for all Americans in championship races but... Does Engels really believe that Salazar was just trying to see how someone would react to being "brushed" with testosterone cream when he put it on his son??
Seems more credible if you read the testimony. Agreed it seems pretty stupid on its face, and I think Engels acknowledged that in his interview.
really wrote:
I admittedly know and follow this stuff less than probably anyone commenting here and generally root for all Americans in championship races but... Does Engels really believe that Salazar was just trying to see how someone would react to being "brushed" with testosterone cream when he put it on his son??
Yea, I watched to whole interview and Engels seems willingly obliviously to the details of what's going on and too trusting of his obviously biased team. He's not a lawyer, but doesn't come across as too bright.
Honestly, if you are fresh out of college and NOP throws a pile of money in your direction with all their other resources and opportunities, it would be hard to say no. You might create some shaky justifications for sticking around.
NoTack Jenny wrote:
Jenny said “I guess if the rules say sifan can run I should respect it. “
Her name was in no report of anything. Wtf is she trying to spout off on?
This is exactly what Craig is saying- Jenny is pointing fingers and creating issues where they don’t belong.
Alberto is banned. We saw the report. Bash him if you want. If you want to bring in new evidence on Sifan, find it. Just don’t make things up. No class there, Jenny
She was asked how she felt about racing her you dummy.
sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:
He...doesn't come across as too bright.
I mean he went to Ole Miss, so I wouldn't expect much out of him.
I thought Jenny's original interview and follow up were more than fair. She's at the point in her career and has accomplished so much that she probably feels the freedom to speak her mind (in response to specific questions asked of her) rather than giving a canned, safer "no comment".
NOP is dirty and so is Jenny. She stinks to high heavens, having run 4:11 in 2008 just before turning 22 and 3:59 in 2019 just before turning 33.
Typical behavior from someone in a tough spot. Let's not talk about how one of the coaches in my running group just got convicted, let's make Jenny the enemy because she is the one on the high horse. I don't know if Julian's group is involved in anything like Salazaar is but the way he handled was completely unconvincing.
Next time think about why you were stupid enough to join a group that everyone in the running community knows is a scumbag and a cheat before you get upset that doping attention is being directed at you. Jenny has lost medals and money over her career due to cheaters and I would be pissed too.
I only wish when the question about Hassan came up she hadn't backed down. She told 1 lie in her response and it was that she is comfortable that she and Hassan are on a level playing field.
reer wrote:
sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:
He...doesn't come across as too bright.
I mean he went to Ole Miss, so I wouldn't expect much out of him.
I thought Jenny's original interview and follow up were more than fair. She's at the point in her career and has accomplished so much that she probably feels the freedom to speak her mind (in response to specific questions asked of her) rather than giving a canned, safer "no comment".
Colorado isn’t quite the academic institution either
ncrecuvuer wrote:
"Where we are today, it's a physical test, not a chemistry lab, so you take the joy out of seeing who's the best when you cheat" - Jenny
Well just cause you're using chemistry doesn't mean you're a cheater. Anyone is allowed to use the grey area. Even taking an iron supplement can be considered "chemistry". WADA has their banned substances and that's what it is.
"There's a difference between having a cloud of suspicion and a conviction... if it [USADA's ban] reaches that point, I trust they [USADA] made it with an incredible amount of evidence." - Jenny
So what, if she ate tainted beef and USADA convicts her, she's just going to respect their decision and call herself a cheater? An incredible amount of evidence? This whole case if based off questionable practices and no hard evidence. The conviction and how ever the appeal turns out is very subjective, from both sides, and will probably come down to who has the best lawyers. Nike vs USADA, I'd like to see how that one turns out. USATF will have a field day with this one. Who just signed a 20 year contract with them again?
The first statement is what I was responding to. Read "Once a Runner", "Pre", biographies on Shorter/Rodgers, etc tell me the parts where they are working out the best ways to take grey area supplements. Doping and drugs were around then. When Rocky fight Drago, that is essentially how people feel about what Salazar is doing with respect to his training regiment outside of actual training. As noted, it is antithetical to the spirit of running, which at its core is a very simple endeavor. This is why most runners will get behind people who don't even venture into the grey areas of the sport.
Given hormones in food and all the supplements we have, there is certainly nuances to testing results. That is why they have A and B samples. So, I agree making things black and white about results can be misleading. That is why things like a bio passport and other things that can be done to rule out things like beef with excessive hormones are needed.
Lenny Leonard wrote:
Advantage Engels on this one.
How so?
wejo wrote:
Our story is now up on this
https://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/10/craig-engels-defends-himself-nop-teammates-responds-to-jenny-simpson-people-have-a-moral-compass-besides-her/
In the story, it mentions Jenny never accused any athlete of being dirty or mentioned a NOP runner. But a few grafs earlier, there's a direct quote from her saying she doesn't feel sorry for those that point fingers of those associated.
It's likely Engels inferred that as her accusing some of the group. After all "Maybe you are cheating." Certainly could come off the wrong way to him.
Love this wrote:
This is what I’m talking about!!!
So tired of this pc culture. Our sport is a joke. This wouldn’t be an issue in any other sport. It’s a damn amino acid given to an assistant coach. Let that sink in. Too much of An amino acid was given to an assistant coach so the Worlds top coach has been kicked out.
F Jenny. Thanks Craig!!!!
You need to take a higher dose of L-Coherence
I have no idea what you are trying to say
really wrote:
I admittedly know and follow this stuff less than probably anyone commenting here and generally root for all Americans in championship races but... Does Engels really believe that Salazar was just trying to see how someone would react to being "brushed" with testosterone cream when he put it on his son??
The claim is definitely absurd ...
... but if anything is certain in all of this: Salazar has a LOT of (ungrateful) enemies. Like, borderline unhinged types.
The reason for this is a real chicken-and-egg noggin’ scratcher.
It’s really convenient how long it took so many of Al’s former associates and athletes to come forward and “do the right thing.” (As opposed to the convenient or retaliatory thing.)
Does USATF bestow an award for bravery and valor of equivalence to the Medal of Honor? First they should give one to themselves. After that one should be draped around the pencil neck of each of the brave whistleblowers and affiants who brought Salazar to justice (after they washed out, aged out, went psychotic or were otherwise terminated from NOP employ). They must have feared for their lives all of those years!
TrackCoach wrote:
gojenny! wrote:
Jenny is absolutely right.
Craig then commented on the Flotrack post saying "She is wild man!" with a laughing emoji as if Jenny is some crazy woman going off about some unfounded topic.
USADA just put a 4 year ban on Salazar, the FOUNDER of NOP. Everyone in the sport of track and field knows Salazar has has shady practices. And people don't have a right to question the group even though Engels is coached by Julian?
Sit down, Craig. You don't have nearly as many national titles or medals as Simpson.
I have always been a big Jenny Simpson fan, now, not so much. Her negative comment about her fellow USA teammates at a global championship was unkind, unnecessary and incorrect. If we assume every U.S. athlete who has worked with a tainted coach is a doper, then we would have to cast dispersions on nearly half of our Olympic medalist since the 1980s. Notwithstanding the fact there is actual doping in our sport that need to be called out, but for athletes who put their heart and soul into becoming successful and would never dope, to be called out as a doper is extremely hurtful. - Jenny's comments perhaps makes her a hero to the average LRC member, but to me and lot of people I know, she has placed a stain on her legacy.
Life and careers are too short to not call out cheaters.
Knowing how this works, I am pretty sure the athletes no who are on the juice.
Waiting until you are 3 years retired is not the time to call them out.
Jerry Schumacher's group races infrequently. Did Solinksy and Tegenkamp race so infrequently...I seem to remember them racing a lot (I admit, this could be a reason why they no longer race as much)
A great way to hide doping efforts is by rarely racing and hiding out at elevation.
Same thing the Kenyans and Ethiopians allegedly do.....
I guess my point is, none of us know anything about what athletes are actually doing...so we shouldn't speculate or make accusations because how you come off on the outside doesn't mean anything if you're cheating.
aivnrwioavne wrote:
the mental gymnastics that NOP lovers will go to is amazing. Salazar literally got a ban due to some completely insane testosterone experiment, and you are still out here fawning over him. You can read the report for why. I'm sorry if you personally in your heart don't think he deserved one. Or that you think a grey area exists. You are not at liberty to judge. USADA has determined that these are the rules for the sport, not some fanboys.
It's just pathetic. Ignore the testosterone testing. Ignore the TUEs. Ignore his long time relationship with "Doctor" Brown. Ignore the fact that many of his former athletes and associates have had serious concerns with his conduct. Ignore the bizarre extent to which Nike has gone to protect him. Ignore the fact that Mo Farah magically went from a middle of the pack runner on the world scene to a world destroyer late in his career right after he found Salazar. Ignore Hassan closing a 10k in 359. Ignore ALL of that and just pretend that USADA has some sort of inexplicable agenda against Salazar.
Lenny Leonard wrote:
Advantage Engels on this one.
I can't agree with that - he has valid points about trying to do the right thing, and I do feel for him if he genuinely feels aggrieved by what Simpson implied about the hit to the reputations of anyone associated with Salazar, but a lot of his reaction seemed to be based on these feelings - from the article even he had to acknowledge that it was Salazar who was the one who hurt their reputations, not Simpson, as he stated. His position that he accepts the decision against Salazar seems a bit undermined by what he says about seeing what will happen next (at least that's how I read it).
I want to see them both do well, admire them for speaking up, but I don't see how Engel's position is tenable
Sosjsbzksj wrote:
Oh jenny wrote:
I’ve been a Simpson fan since college but she is actually starting to get annoying. Loved the interview. Craig is awesome!! Keep it up!
Uh oh, the meek little female voiced her opinion!!
+1
You can't criticize someone if they are a woman!
Jenny was exposed in this situation. Great work, LRC.
She needs to be more thoughtful and considered in her responses. She is so reactive. And, yes, she does have some sort've high horse.
Do we not forget this?