Mary Cain et al

USE PARAGRAPHS

Coaches don't establish scholarship limits, the NCAA does and they did it to comply with the stupid Title IX.

kal wrote:

... Let's go back to the old days of running before the NCAA became full of itself.

In the really old days of the 60s and 70s high school kids who wanted to be good were running huge mileage and lots of intensity. Here's a sample week for Jim Ryun in high school -

Base Work in Winter [February 20 to February 26, 1964]

106 miles/week

February 20:

AM 5 miles – strides,

PM 20x440, 4.5 miles – strides,

February 22:

AM 5 miles – strides,

PM 5x2 miles (reverse route each time),

February 21 [17 miles],

AM 5 miles – strides,

PM hill work – 6 times series, 1. up 200 yard hill (steep), 2. stride 880 on top, controlled sprint down (gradual incline down), 3. stride 440 flat, 4. sprint 6x50 and 3x220 with strides between each

February 23 [12.5 miles],

AM 5 miles – strides,

PM 10x880 (jog 440 between each) F

February 24:

AM 5 miles;

PM run golf course – 36 holes worth

February 25:

AM 6 miles;

PM run golf course – 10 miles

February 26:

PM 16 miles on roads

This was when we had high school age kids who were world class runners like the East Africans have now.

Mary Cain quit because she didn't want to dope. In fact, I think she feels guilty of her time doping with Salazar.

1) High Schoolers could be world class runners back then because nobody wanted to run. Competitive depth was garbage. There was no money in the sport, and everyone beyond college who wanted to run had to do so while balancing an actual career. Not as easy to improve in the sport when you can't dedicate your life to it. And this is just for western runners. You think East Africans and the rest of the 3rd World were going to have high levels of participation in something like that?

2) Look at the careers of the HS super stars from back then. Ryun had a few years and that was it. Lindgren basically lost his mind. Nobody today wants that.

3) High School Age in East Africa is questionable at best. Gebrselassie and Kipchoge were high school age superstars, but both have very openly made it clear that they don't actually know their ages.

Your post is all over the place.

Only parents and coaches watch cross country races. Making the races shorter will not increase the number of spectators or fans that watch. The Diamond League is even dropping the 5000m but look how exciting it can be by looking at the last 600 meters of the 2019 World Championship race.

Track is also not popular either compared to other sports. Just look at all the empty seats at most professional track meets including the recent World Champion events. So shortening the length of XC race will not fix the problem if few are going to watch even the shorter track events.

Collegiate runners generally race once every two weeks. If they have races two weekends in a row you may discover that they are not racing one of them but instead going out at predetermined paces throughout the race. High school teams may have one invitation every weekend and maybe a dual or some other smaller competition during the middle of the week. So are collegiate runners actually racing more miles? Just compare schedules. Note that collegiate schedules may have travel team members go to one meet while non-travel team runners will go to another meet closer to the campus.

6K for women is not a big jump over 5K for girls. The men are doing just 8K until late in the season. Both may start at 5K for the first race of the season which once again may be for non-travel team runners. As a HM and marathon runner I would consider anything 10 miles and under to be very easy on my body now that I have been running for a number of years. I would expect the collegiate runners have enough base to be able to easily handle their distance in a race once every two weeks during their short seasons.

Many here would say Mary's body changed, maybe she gained weight, gained hips, was too injury prone these last few years to remain competitive. Maybe she can be competitive one again or maybe not.

No runners ever sit the bench in college unless they are injured. Freshman will compete at all bigs meets if they are fast enough and not injured. Coaches put their best runners in the big competitions. The problem is that injuries are common. They are common at the high school level too. You just may not hear about the injuries as much at the high school level unless you have a source for the information such as a coach or parent.

The NCAA can do nothing to prevent running injuries. Runners are pushing their bodies to the limits at time in training and in racing to be competitive as possible. Doing so will often lead to an injury sooner or later. One collegiate runner I know only had one minor injury during her collegiate career. She was one of the best in the nation at D1 level. She went onto a professional career after college and has suffered with multiple injuries over the years.

The old days may look better only because do not know how bad it too was.

Mary Cain left Salazar asap. She gets points in my book.

Idiot coaches! Not just at high school level, but college level as well.

What about coaches who have scholarships available (more than one, multiple) and just don't use them and or take them away from contributing members?

O.P. is correct. College XC DISTANCE IS TOO LONG. College XC is not 800m runner friendly. For some college 1500m runners, college XC is not a good fit. There are outstanding high school 400/800 athletes who do not run high school XC. College XC is too much for them, especially if said 400/800 runners are racing in T&F meets over the summer. Said 400/800 athletes are not logging the miles to make them a good fit for college XC. College XC currently is catering to 3000mSC, 5000m, 10000m and no T&F gals & guys. We are learning from NIKE drug bust, U.S. cannot produce great clean distance runners. U.S. college XC needs to think of the needs of 800m men & women. College XC should be no longer than 5000m for each gender.

If high school represents the best years of your life I feel sorry for you. Seriously .

She convincingly dusted Lilian Rengeruk at the junior worlds. Now Rengeruk is world-class finishing 5th in Doha and winning a few Diamond Leagues. It's fair to assume she would've contended for a medal in the Doha 5k.

I agree with most of this post but HS is usually the toughest part of one's life.

jecht wrote:

I agree with most of this post but HS is usually the toughest part of one's life.

You mean for Americans. Most cultures, HS is a carefree time where parents and teachers take care of everything. American style cliques, rarely manifest.

Mary Cain was a 1:59.xx 800m runner at age 17. I do not think a college T&F coach would have moved Mary Cain up to 5000m.

Mary Cain should do what makes her happy. Some past Olympians and World Champions haven't done as much work as some think or were led to believe.