List of runners who have run 1:44 and 13:00

Cmootram wrote:

3:48 for the mile is pure slow twitch? I think that's a very inaccurate statement right there.

If you look at the 800m time that was from from 1999, when Mottram was 19. There was a news article once that said he ran 1:45 in training, which is very believable.

I have no doubt that Mottram could have run a sub 50 400 too if he had tried

Also Solinsky was a different kind of beast when compared to Mottram. Mottram never seriously attempted the 10km, while Solinsky did. Mottram was more of a 1500/5k guy while Solinsky was a 5k/10k/cross country/strength guy.

Yes, Mottram's sprint speed (for his level as a runner!) was not exceptional. Same with El Guerrouj. You only posted Mottram's 800m PR, which was indeed achieved in 1999.

2001, the year he ran 3:35 in the 1500m he raced the 800m once more:

09 FEB 2001 Melbourne Victorian Open, Melbourne AUSAUS F H2 5. 1:54.25

10 FEB 2001 Melbourne Victorian Open, Melbourne AUSAUS F F 16. 1:57.20

The 16th place was a devastating result for a 3:35/7:41 guy on that year. A miler with great speed runs faster in the 800m. He as a strength-based runner just as Solinsky was. The mile is 80% aerobic, and that guy was an aerobic MONSTER.

He closed a 5k once in 53 - just goes to show how strong he was. That was very close to his max all-out 400m speed, the same way Farah was able to close races. "But Farah got sooo much speed!" No, the ability to kick hard at the end doesn't mean he has insane wheels. In a 100m event with superstars from various sports, he only got a 12.9 out of the blocks. IF he had really great sprint speed, he wouldn't start his kick 400-600m out as he usually does, but let it come down to a 100m-150m sprint at the end. It's his ability to run at/very close near his maximum speed for a long time (400-600m) that made him so deadly, not his 12.9 100m PR.

Now to El Guerrouj. Like Centro, El Guerrouj was strength runner. His 5k was insanely good, his 800m bad (again, for his level relative to his other strengths). The most important race in his career (Sydney 2000) he lost because it came down to a sprint at the end, with Noah Ngeny, a guy with inferior aerobic capacity/1500m PR BUT much more natural speed. Ngeny was a 1:44/2:11/7:35 guy, whereas El Guerrouj was a 1:47/2:16/7:23. You don't wanna have a 1:44/2:11 guy with you on the home straight in an Olympic final, even if you are the greatest miler ever.

Now the real question is, where does Centro fit? He sees himself as a strength-based 1500m runner, slower than Kiprop/Ngeny/Lewandowski so his range from 1:44->13:00 is exceptional but possible without doping.

Jgt11 wrote:

Who this year has even gone under 13:10 and 1:47? (Other than Centro)

Maybe none but this doesn't mean much. Very few runners (not to say none...) actually attempt to do both distances. Therefore it is irrelevant that only Centro's done it.

30 yr old on the downslope of their athletic career who has slowed at every distance over the last 5 yrs all of a sudden runs a huge PR.....Somehow someone with elite genetics and has been training at an elite level for what...10-15 yrs?...somehow the new training is the "secret".

You all are naive little fools.

Just accept the doping and move on. Every other major sport has, regardless of the headline.

Alan

In there defense they have been doing some very solid training blocks this year. Let’s see how Worlds go before we drop the gullitine

Great accomplishment by Centro. It sets him up really well for a transition to 5k next year. As for this year, however, there's no correlation between running a fast 5k and medalling in a championship 1500 -- completely different skills.

The question is who has run 1:44 and 13:00, not who clearly had the potential to run not only that, but the world record.

No wonder this is the same board always talking about the next US guy to run 2:10, any day now.

Runningart2004 wrote:

You all are naive little fools.

Just accept the doping and move on. Every other major sport has, regardless of the headline.

Alan

Throwing out baseless accusations doesn't add anything to the discussion. Stop following the sport if you have such a strong opinion.

Also, your logic doesn't make any sense. Centro won a gold medal 3 years ago, so you are saying he won that clean but then doped for a random 5k?

What this shows is when you give a 3:30 guy 4600m of perfect pacing after 6 months of strength training, he can run 13:00.

ugh more negativity wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

You all are naive little fools.

Just accept the doping and move on. Every other major sport has, regardless of the headline.

Alan

Throwing out baseless accusations doesn't add anything to the discussion. Stop following the sport if you have such a strong opinion.

Also, your logic doesn't make any sense. Centro won a gold medal 3 years ago, so you are saying he won that clean but then doped for a random 5k?

What this shows is when you give a 3:30 guy 4600m of perfect pacing after 6 months of strength training, he can run 13:00.

This, I was going to say something similar

I would expect Jacob Ingebretsin to join that club soon--maybe next year

Didn't El G close the 1500 m in 1:46? If so 1:47 does not seem his real PR or shows what he was capable of--probably not 1:42 but maybe 1:44 or 1:45

Thought him and one other person closed in 1:46 and change in Athens. Don't remember who it was. I think if Jim Ryan were training these days he could have run 13:00 as well. He ran 8:25 as a 19 year old for 2 Miles using inferior shoes and tracks. He could absorb punishing mileage and intervals and had to be very fit aerobically. Back then it was hard to support yourself being a pro. They did not have a luxury of having a Salazar or Schumacher to pull the strings. Danial Komen ran a 4:46 mile and 7:20 3000 m--may have had 1:44 speed as well though he was probably juiced up.

JNathletics wrote:

Said Aouita had the best range

Personal best(s)

800m: 1:43.86

1500m: 3:29.46

Mile: 3:46.76

3000m: 7:29.45

2-mile: 8:13.45

5000m: 12:58.39

10,000m: 27:26.11

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saïd_Aouita

Webb's right there, FWIW. Having only raced 5000m and 10000m once, legitimately. I think it's safe to say he could've run near 13-flat, a la Centro.

800 Metres 1:43.84

1500 Metres 3:30.54

One Mile 3:46.91

Two Miles 8:11.48

5000 Metres 13:10.86

10,000 Metres 27:34.72

Come on now Alan. He's the reigning olympic Champ and has run 3:30. He's one of the best milers of the decade. He goes from doing more speed based training and running 13:20?ish and now, with a more strength oriented program, he runs 13:00.

It makes plenty of sense to me.

Hardloper wrote:

ugh more negativity wrote:

Throwing out baseless accusations doesn't add anything to the discussion. Stop following the sport if you have such a strong opinion.

Also, your logic doesn't make any sense. Centro won a gold medal 3 years ago, so you are saying he won that clean but then doped for a random 5k?

What this shows is when you give a 3:30 guy 4600m of perfect pacing after 6 months of strength training, he can run 13:00.

This, I was going to say something similar

Centro 5000 PB before this was 13:20. Nothing to see here.

Kev2 wrote:

Didn't El G close the 1500 m in 1:46? If so 1:47 does not seem his real PR or shows what he was capable of--probably not 1:42 but maybe 1:44 or 1:45

He did not have great basic speed for a 1500 runner; unlike the champions past who did (Snell/Ryun/Coe/Ovett, etc.), he was a (doped?) strength runner who needed to run the kick out of faster men, hence taking it up with 600-800 to go and turning every race into a time-trial rather than "sit-and-kick" race.

If he really was on EPO, which we will never know, you can't just extrapolate his 400 and 800 times based on what he did in the 1500 and how he closed in them.

Never wondered why he didn't run many 800s? His speed really wasn't that great, and he was afraid of becoming suspicious. His endurance was just totally over the top, either due to his spectacular training (easy runs at 3:00/k pace) or to EPO use.

Also, mentioning the 1:46 last lap in Athens doesn't mean anything. Lagat also closed the same race in a 1:46, and has never ran below 1:46. 800m is much more about 400m speed, which these slow-twitch runners don't excel in, whereas the mile is 80% aerobic / endurance-based. Their strength is being able to maintain so much of their absolute 800m speed in closing a 1500 that goes out very slow (first 700m in 1:47 in that case).

I do agree with the 1:44-1:45 tho.

I like how Letsrun posters call Africans dopers when they get big PRs and then when Centro doesn't race all season and nails a HUGE PR they rationalize it as legitimate.

Come on. The dude has been doping his entire pro career. This 5k is literally flipping the middle finger to the drug testers. He's saying "you can't catch me because I don't race."

Have to say if Gebrselassie, Bekele and Komen would have wanted to be in the club, would surely make it. But never raced 800's

Gebrselassie

1500 metres: 3:33.73

Mile: 3:52.39

3000 metres: 7:25.09

2-mile: 8:01.08

5000 metres: 12:39.36

10,000 metres: 26:22.75

Bekele

5000 metres: 12:37.35 WR

10,000 metres: 26:17.53 WR

Komen

1500 Meters 3:29.46

1 Mile 3:46.38

3000 Meters 7:20.67 World Record

3000 Meters (indoor) 7:24.90 World Record

2 Miles 7:58.61 World Record

5000 Meters 12:39.74

10,000 Meters 27:38.3

sbeefyk2 wrote:

I like how Letsrun posters call Africans dopers when they get big PRs and then when Centro doesn't race all season and nails a HUGE PR they rationalize it as legitimate.

Come on. The dude has been doping his entire pro career. This 5k is literally flipping the middle finger to the drug testers. He's saying "you can't catch me because I don't race."

You really have no idea how testing works. Better luck next thread.

sbeefyk2 wrote:

I like how Letsrun posters call Africans dopers when they get big PRs and then when Centro doesn't race all season and nails a HUGE PR they rationalize it as legitimate.

Come on. The dude has been doping his entire pro career. This 5k is literally flipping the middle finger to the drug testers. He's saying "you can't catch me because I don't race."

+1

Just because they are Americans, doesn't mean they are clean.