Competitive masters start with elites?

In the past, Boston has invited a couple of masters runners and provided them with free entry, travel and housing support. You would need a very competitive masters resume to get that kind of support. A 2:40 guy training his brains out to try to nail a 2:30 is not going to get that kind of invite. If you have really good masters running credentials, keep trying to get through.

Otherwise, I am not sure how they are handling the prize money. I would assume that they would just combine the gun times from the pro start and the mass start 2 min later.

Back on late 2000s when I ran as a master I also used to help stuff bib packets and happened to be talking to a lady who said she handled those request. I tried asking but dont think I got the right answer. she said 2:19 which seems in line with open men. She said master same time. I knew my high 2:36 time wasnt close enough so wasnt going to press the issue.

It's been a while but I recall back then scanning past year results just to see if it was possible, I would come across 5 or so men master elites all with bib num in the 500s and at least a couple did not have results that put them sub 2:20 category. But I would agree 2:30 wouldn't cut it, more like mid low 2:20s

Back then, elite mens group all went off at same gun as wave 1. When did that change?

They changed the elite start to two minutes ahead of wave 1 beginning last year. I wouldn't expect a special entry for being old, but being a 2:30 masters guy hoping to run 2:30 (which always falls in top 10 masters at Boston) prize money seems like an outside possibility. Although it only goes 5 deep, I believe 2:30 would have placed as high as 3rd in 2016. As far as the elite field, I'd actually prefer to be wave 1 since it seems like it would be no mans land pretty quick clicking of 5:40s. Hopefully someone who experience a similar situation can weigh in on how it plays out.

So long rant

This new early start for elite open and master on the men's side is so needlessly problematic.

I think it was in response to the 2014 and the crappy weather where 5 non-invited women in the first corral ended up in top 15. BAA afraid of being slammed for gender bias, decided to pay out to both top in the elite start and those from first corral that would have finished in the money based on 'gun time from thier respective wave'. Then I think they took it a step further and instituted a early gun start for elite men to further show the same rules apply to both women as well as the men. Great. Now you get a potential mess in both genders instead of just one.

I dont know if the person at this link for elite request is the one you tried contacting. Hes a rather decent runner for the baa masters team himself, so I'd assume he is willing to explain the issue and current situation. It looks more verbiage was added regarding prize money, gun time and elite start. Check it out if you haven't already.

The whole purpose of using gun time for cash payout is defeated if someone from a later start can beat you without you ever actually racing head to head against them.

https://www.baa.org/races/boston-marathon/plan/prize-money

https://www.flotrack.org/articles/6194006-baa-to-award-non-elite-women-their-boston-marathon-prize-money-after-all

"Competitive masters."

FFF wrote:

"Competitive masters."

Can you beat those guys?

Not sure what the deal is now that they changed the start time of the elites, but here was my experience for 2017.

I received an unsolicited email from the BAA months after I registered letting me know that I was among the top 10 seed times (2:30:52) for my age group (45-49) and, as such, would have to wear front and back bibs which would be provided at the race.

Based on that experience, my guess is that if you are in that top 10 in your age group, you will be notified and provided with whatever opportunity is appropriate to compete for a money finish.

The one quirky thing is that some of the masters runners did end up in the elite field - ahead of Corral 1 of Wave 1 - based on times on downhill courses. I think some masters guy ran 2:22 or 2:24 at St. George or another race in Utah and was up with the elite field as a result. So maybe that will be an issue.

For what it is worth, I ran my 2:30 at Chicago on a decent weather day, was seeded maybe 15th or 18th in the masters field and fifth in my age group with that time, and ended up 3rd in my age group and 13th masters with a 2:34:40 on a very hot day. I think the top 3 masters were Abdi, Meb and Clint Wells. Needless to say, top 5 was definitely a tough ticket.

Smoove, thanks for the intel. Did you get any sort of special treatment (ie, warm up area, etc?)

Checking back at the results from last year it looks like #5 master had a relatively high bib number. I wonder if they gave him and "elite" start and whether he collected the prize money. If they actually start a dozen or so masters with a chance at prize money with the elites it would be tolerable. The unique experience of starting with elites notwithstanding, if it's a long shot to get in the money it seems like running with Wave 1 would be a lot more conducive to running your best race than getting dropped by the elite field in the first ten yards of the race and basically running by yourself the rest of the way.

another boston question wrote:

Smoove, thanks for the intel. Did you get any sort of special treatment (ie, warm up area, etc?)

Checking back at the results from last year it looks like #5 master had a relatively high bib number. I wonder if they gave him and "elite" start and whether he collected the prize money. If they actually start a dozen or so masters with a chance at prize money with the elites it would be tolerable. The unique experience of starting with elites notwithstanding, if it's a long shot to get in the money it seems like running with Wave 1 would be a lot more conducive to running your best race than getting dropped by the elite field in the first ten yards of the race and basically running by yourself the rest of the way.

I've gotten a back bib like Smooth at several Bostons. They give them to the top 10 seeded runners in each age group, based solely on qualifying time. Although I've never gotten into the elite field, my understanding is that they put the top 15 masters into the elite start on the assumption that the top 5 (and thus prize money winners) will come from that group of 15. You might be able to figure out seed times and names based on prior years' elite masters runners. They'll be the masters with double digit bib numbers, as the regular wave 1 runners start with bib #100.

And I didn't get any sort of special treatment either with my masters back bib either. Either you were in the elite field with a bib number in the single or double digits, or you were with the masses in the athletes village, even if your bib number was in the 100s.

Agree - no special treatment. I did manage to have a friend hook me up through a race sponsor with the John Hancock treatment where you can get in the school, but that was just me getting lucky and had nothing to do with seed times or anything else.

After the bib #s are assigned, you can do what I did - search each bib number and figure out what other masters runners are seeded faster than you or in your range. Some dude will come out of nowhere, but other guys will crack on race day, so your seeding will be at least a decent indicator of outcome.