Road Racing and Training Thread Week Ending September 8 2019

Wow Page 3 already...

Male, 51 yo, 5’7”, 129 lbs

Goals: Dec 15 - Taipei Marathon (lottery willing) - sub 3:10

Upcoming Races: Oct 6 - 10k; Nov 3 - HM

Week 15

Wednesday Q:

It was comparatively cooler, but still around 80 degrees. 3 x 3k at T with an additional mile at T for dessert with warm up and cool down. That was about 45 minutes of work at T, the highest amount so far this cycle.

Or was it?

Running by feel and not looking to the watch for guidance of HR or pace. My perceived effort equalled my current vdot pace estimate exactly, but my HR was not up in what I would call my T zone. Sooooooo interesting! I know Daniels calls T “the pace you could race at for about an hour.” For me, it’s “the effort that if you were running a marathon you’d slap yourself and whisper, ‘slow down, tiger.’”

If I had been on my HR protocol, I would have pushed and pushed to get my HR up and in the zone. But that definitely would not have been the correct level of effort, though it may have (keep reading) resulted in a faster pace. This is exactly what I experienced in my last cycle doing 2Q by heart rate: The T days were very difficult, and now looking back probably more difficult than they should have been. I did this workout by HR last January at 63 degrees and logged that it was a “helluva workout.” Strava’s algorithm agreed, saying “This was harder than your usual effort.” This time felt comfortably hard for the 80 degree temps. Strava called it “consistent with your usual efforts.” But but but the paces were almost identical despite a lower HRavg (about 10bpm!) and a much more comfortable perceived effort level.

We’ve all been warned “Don’t race the workouts.” For sure. In addition, I might add something like “Don’t let your log race your plan.” I’ll admit to some vague sense of accomplishment after a run when what I log was exactly what the “plan” called for. It’s like the plan becomes some kind of abstract “ideal runner” that I feel the need to keep pace with. I’m not expressing this well, but it’s a different kind of “racing the workout” mentality... “living up to the ideal” mentality. That’s a thing.

I learn so much from running.

Sunday Q:

1.6k E + 2(3k T + 2 min) + 45 min E + 20 min T + 10 min E at RealFeel 86 degrees.

Again, inching up the time at T. Same protocol as Wednesday, but I ended up at a comparatively lower HR and pace. Was I dogging it? Maybe a bit. Even while out there, the voices in my head were something like “this T feels pretty OK... well, then it’s probably not quite T... but this is all I really want to give today... yeah, OK, but it’s probably not T...”

Chuck Jones wrote:

The Stone Cutter wrote:

At first I just figured the capitalized L was a voice-texted typo. Very clever, my friend.

No matter how clever the hunter is, they often underestimate the prey.

I think the rate at which I've ramped from zero to prior-cycle peak is an indication of how highly I'm estimating my colleague here, but that doesn't mean we can't have a little fun along the way.

Besides, I'm at least 3x clever than Wile E. Coyote anyway.

*3x more clever. Cleverer?

See?

M42 5'10 145

Goal Race: CIM

I have been to PT to work out a sore glute issue which is apparently caused by a distraction in my right SI joint and compression in my left. For the short term, I'm okay to run shorter instances in the form of doubles with ibuprofen. I'm pretty comfortable running fairly easy aerobic but am I bit hesitant to go high aerobic quite yet.

* - indicates a treadmill run

Monday #1 - 60 min @ 7:55 (147 bpm)

*Monday #2 - 30 min @ 8:21 (124 bpm)

Tuesday #1 - 60 min @ 7:58 (141 bpm)

*Tuesday #2 - 30 min @ 7:50 (134 bpm)

Wednesday #1 - 60 min @ 7:45 (HRM error)

*Wednesday #2 - 30 min @ 7:43 (142 bpm)

*Thursday #1 - 40 min @ 8:18 (127 bpm)

*Thursday #2 - 35 min @ 8:10 (131 bpm)

Friday #1 - 65 min @ 7:36 (149 bpm)

Friday #2 - 30 min @ 7:48 (143 bpm)

Saturday #1 - 95 min @ 7:19 (156 bpm)

*Saturday #2 - 30 min @ 8:22 (132 bpm)

Sunday #1 - 60 min @ 7:50 (144 bpm)

*Sunday #2 - 30 min @ 8:29 (128 bpm)

Weekly Totals:

Miles - 85.19

Duration - 11:09

Elev Gain - 1086 ft

M35, 6’-1, 155

PB / SB:

Mile 4:06 / NT

5k 14:32 / 15:24

10k 31:30 / NT

Half 1:09:47 / 1:09:47

Full 2:34:50 / NT

Upcoming Races:

10/6- 10 Miler

10/27- Half Marathon

12/8- Marathon (CIM)

1/19- Half Marathon (Houston)

M: easy, 9M

T: progressive, 10M @ easy->10k pace (7:10->5:06)

W: easy, 9M

T: med long run, 13M

F: easy, 9M

S: off, —

S: long run, 20M

9/8 Total: 70 (6d)

M: easy, 9M

T: easy, 9M

W: easy, 9M

T: easy, 9M

F: easy, 9M

S: long run, 17M

S: off, —

9/1 Total: 62 (6d) *Easy week*

8/25 Total: 52 (5d) **Knee pain**

8/18 Total: 58 (6d) *Rest week*

8/11 Total: 70 (6d), LR=19

8/4 Total: 68 (6d), LR=17

7/28 Total: 66 (6d), LR=17

7/21 Total: 64 (6d), LR=16

7/14 Total: 65 (6d), LR=16

7/7 Total: 50 (5d), LR=15

drcrusher wrote:

Later, I hiked 7 mi at the Black Canyon (1800ft elevation gain, >7500ft elev.) where it was very hot and dry. That was enough for my heart, lungs, and legs for the day.

You must have hiked down to the river. Which route? Warner? Did you take a fly rod?

36/dude/140 lbs/6'

Gonna post my week quick and then read the thread. I saw a few good things before I clicked reply - So shout out to JQ (awesome mile, well executed), darkwave (ditto to JQ), and again to RunnerSam who killed that 5k, and then went out and did a Tri this weekend.

My week:

M - Off - Travel back from Boston, just didn't want to move

Tu - 4 miles AM @ 7:22, PM - 3 miles up, 4k tempo 4X1k (with RunnerSam and track club crew), 1.5 cool down

4k was at 5:50 pace, 1k's - 322, 322, 318, 312

W - 6 recovery at 7:36

Th - 4.1 at 7:28 (was going to double... ran out of time and decided to watch football instead)

F - 4.2 at 7:28 AM, PM - 2 miles up, 4 mile tempo at 5:44 (551, 549, 541, 536), 2 miles cool down

Sa - 6.2 miles at 7:29

Su - 12 miles at 7:14 - (735, 728, 723, 721, 722, 727, 721, 715, 701, 648, 632, 710) - wanted to close a bit faster and did, then used the last mile as a cool down of sorts. Overall a really nice long run day.

Total - 56 miles in 6hr 45min.

Looked like there was a ton of good stuff going on in the thread this week. Looking forward to spending some time this morning catching up on it all.

Leaderboard

Bird502 92.88% (HM...1:03:41)

Coyote Montane 92.88%(8K...28:19)

statfanatic 91.64% (1 mi...4:03)

Urban Diesel 90.59% (3K...9:29)

Smoove 89.32% (Marathon...2:30:44)

Runn3grl123 87.46% (5K...16:53)

Bdubs 86.93% (5K...15:26)

LongWayFromHome 86.91% (5K...14:31)

krishna 85.27% (3K...8:38)

outsiderunner 85.18% (5K...17:19)

GNR1 84.86% (5K...15:38)

th3bt 84.62% (10K...34:21)

Jewbacca 84.43% (10K...32:13)

darkwave 86.49% (1 mile…5:25)

slow-twitch 83.68% (5K...16:02)

Andy Dufresne 83.56% (HM..1:10:54)

th3bt 83.4% (10K...35:23)

Napper 83.1% (4 mile...22:41)

HHH 82.66% (5K...15:30)

Bruin1996 82.62% (10K...34:37)

Stone Cutter 82.55% (5K...16:43)

Sub 6:00 82.41% (5K...16:01)

Allen 82.39% (5K...19:13)

team1 80.09% (Marathon...2:40:11)

pewow 80.07% (1 mile...4:38)

3283823 79.88% (10K...34:38)

angryjohnny 79.26% (HM...1:15:17)

runrincerepeat 78.88% (5K...16:44)

Still Improving 78.75% (Marathon...2:57:06)

hantph96 78.56% (5K...16:33)

Gordon Tremeshko 78.47% (5K...16:34)

DietBacon 77.85%(10K...34:19)

Guy Broman 77.6% (5K...16:49)

LancRunner 76.98% (5K...17:14)

Jot quill 76.41% (10K...34:58)

RunnerSam 76.16% (5K...16:56)

Coach Jeff 76.03% (5K...19:24)

Jeremy 75.65% (5K...17:15)

Tall dark roast 75.43% (5K...17:30)

dirtroadSC 75.02% (5K...18:17)

MikeG83 74.95% (5K...17:42)

Working Harder 73.87% (HM..1:21:50)

NYCHalf 72.76% (HM...1:20:16)

RunJaymes 72.53% (10 miler...60:40)

James Corden 71.53% (5K...18:09)

BHViking 70.94% (HM...1:25:52)

Cocoon 70.65% (10K...39:14)

Runningforfun 68.93% (HM...1:25:57)

RunGuy Midwest 68.62 %(Marathon...2:59:10)

KidB 68.38% (HM...1:25:23)

SOBO 67.1% (10K...39:49)

PutoMiudo 67.02% (10K...39:52)

LebanonHills 65.72% (Marathon...3:08:34)

JamesTheAmateur 64.24% (800m...2:37.4)

going faster miles an hour 64.14% (5K...21:59)

*If you want to be included on this list, Age Grade your performance at any distance within the last year. Copy and Paste results and repost. If your performance has expired or has been recorded here inaccurately, please remove it. It will only be as good as your honesty and integrity.[/quote]

Great running Darkwave and Jot Quill!

As far as the age grade leader board. I kinda need your ages to be able to do it. Also soon I will be redoing it so I can put the dates of the performances on it. Would people be against resubmitting times? If I'm going to do it I'd like it in spreadsheet form to make it more convenient. Maybe TDR has a spreadsheet?

Got a 3.2 mile baby flyer in last night. 28 mile weekly total.

Pappy wrote:

Also soon I will be redoing it so I can put the dates of the performances on it. Would people be against resubmitting times?

Pappy, my score expired a couple weeks ago. And I retired from competition a day after that :) . Fare thee well, friend. Good to see your progress.

@Napper: Monster week. I'm curious on that long run, do you ever get up to the full 26.2? I thought about doing a 22-miler last time out, but got sick that week. 23 is awfully close, and in my one marathon I completely lost pace at mile 20 (leg cramps), so wondering if I should work a 22-23 miler in in two weeks for a psychological boost.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

@Napper: Monster week. I'm curious on that long run, do you ever get up to the full 26.2? I thought about doing a 22-miler last time out, but got sick that week. 23 is awfully close, and in my one marathon I completely lost pace at mile 20 (leg cramps), so wondering if I should work a 22-23 miler in in two weeks for a psychological boost.

No, I think I typically max out around 23 or, rarely, 24. For this cycle, I plan to run 23 again 3 weeks out, so those will be my two longest runs. I ran for 2:42 yesterday, and my goal time is 2:40 (well, just under), so I figure that's long enough. But I'm always open to anyone's thoughts.

I think a very long run like 22-23 definitely helps me, as long as I'm not pushing the pace. Yesterday, my group kept dropping the pace to 6:40s on a hilly trail. I didn't need that the day after a long tempo, so eventually let them go.

M36, 142lb. (Pappy--do you mind putting my HM on the leader board? See below. Thanks!)

M-4.5, easy

T-Rest

W-7 with 3 x 1T (avg. 6’25).

Th- 3.25, easy treadmill

F-Rest

S-3.7, easy

*Sunday- 13.1 –City of Lakes HM—Time: 1:23:22, pace 6’22.

*Race report: Great race conditions—overcast, 50s and just a tincture of rain. Had just a ballpark idea of what I was capable of prior to this race. I took Grandma’s Marathon pretty conservatively, had some injuries and have recently only done a few trail races. With all those factors, it was somewhat tough gauge where I was at with a road HM. It was only this week on Weds. I grew confident I had a shot at 1:25:xx. Those miles around the track on Weds. just felt so smooth.

It was a very crowded start and luckily I managed to make it out of the first half-mile without stepping on anyone’s toes or into a pothole (which were tough to see at the start with the mass of humanity). The race is a two lap figure eight around two lakes in Minneapolis. Mostly it’s flat, although there are some rollers and what I would describe as a “real hill” between the two lakes. I settled in with a group of guys, not really knowing what our pace was at first—it felt comfortable but not too comfortable and so it seemed “right” for an HM. At Mile 2 I saw we were at 6’26. This caused a little consternation. My plan had been to come out at 6’40 and then drop the pace in Miles 7-12. That plan went out the window, which ended up being a good thing.

I ran with this group for most of the race, the miles ticking past relatively comfortably. Around Mile 11 I picked up the pace, pulling ahead of “my” group and passing another group. My heart started to go from that “comfortably hard” feeling to more of a pounding around Mile 12. There were two guys in front of me. To distract myself, I just set my sights on them and told myself I’d pass them before the end. I felt reasonably confident of this since the very last stretch is up the hill between the lakes and I find that I usually gain on runners when running hills. I just sat back and waited for the hill and once it came I made my move, passing both of them in the last stretch and kicking to the end--my eyes widening as I saw the finishing clock flash “1:23:xx”. (The first guy I passed gave me a “nice job”; I think the second guy wasn’t as pleased).

Splits: 6'25, 6'28, 6'25, 6'24, 6'22, 6'26, 6'20, 6'26, 6'21, 6'28, 6'22, 6'18, 6'17.

Didn't catch the last .1 mile since I forgot to stop my watch--it was a "full-on middle-aged man beast mode sprint", so whatever pace that is ;o)

HR averaged 172.

A PR of 5+ minutes and definitely ahead of my expectations. Not sure what’s next, but I’m somewhat tempted to do a winter marathon—perhaps Houston (I don’t think it’s filled up yet). Goal would be sub 3. We shall see.

Brief one -

M34, 5' 11", 67kg-ish

Goal Race = 5000m in 3 days.

Basically after my illness ruined the week before last (18m, one session in 3 days running) I decided to have a jog on Monday and see how I felt. I felt great so pushed on with one last track workout and then a full weekend.

6 x 800m off 90secs (2:23, :27, :27, :27, :26, :26)

5k tempo in 16:53

19.5m long run

59m total.

I think those 800s (bar the stupid first one) felt like 5k pace. Certainly wasn't pushing. That's a good sign. This week taking it very easy before Thursday, looks like there's to be around 6-8 people aiming for between 15:12-15:30 so I'm hoping for a good run. All we can ever hope for right?

Quick shout outs to the obvious dark wave and JQ! Blazing stuff. I'd like to be in NYC for the mile races one day. Sounds fun. Likewise to all those big mileage warriors, that idea still scares me weirdly, despite the fact that I've come to terms with the fact that I'll need to bump mine up if I want to improve.

The Stone Cutter - Sorry about the off week, it happens. Sounds like accumulated sleep deprivation or minor sickness. Will be cool to see how Mrs Stone does at RnR, you pacing her?

Nice Job in the mile Jot Quill & Darkwave. 5:25 is moving

AngryJohnny - solid 3x3 and LR workouts. That is a lot of 3 mile reps in one week and all well under Goal Marathon Pace

LebanonHills - GJ with the HM PR, sounds like a pretty well ran race if your last mile was your fastest and it was only 5s faster than the average. (also great race report, basically how everybody would like their race to play out)

rucker - Welcome (back) to the thread. "I won't swim again unless I'm getting paid to do it" a classic, echos what many of my former swimming friends think. You look like your a similar build to one of my best friends who is also a triathlete (he is little taller/heavier). Be a little careful getting into higher mileage, just because you are aerobically there and the muscles can take it doesn't mean your ligaments/tendons can take the extra pounding as easily. What is making you do the switch to just running? Not enough time outside of college for serious cycling?

RunGuy Midwest - keep it up with those consistently higher weeks and it will pay off. Nice job on the workouts

LancRunner - Sorry you couldn't come out to the 5k, would have been a good opportunity to get under 17. I am not really sure of any local fast 5ks until thanksgiving

HHH Runner - goodluck in your 5k, twice I've gotten sick the week before my goal race. just think of it as extra taper

Smoove - Hopefully it will be sorta fun to see the quick improvement of the very early stages of running. best of luck

Pappy - We can replace my entry to the leaderboard with: M Age 25 5k 16:58.4 on 9/6/19 I am not sure which AG calculator we use so I will let you do that part, thanks. I think it's reasonable to have people resubmit with the dates of competition

-RS

Thanks RS...awesome job with your 5k. That's flying!

I'll get to full comments later but s/o to JQ for crushing the mile and Sam for a great 5k.

My week was pretty underwhelming, but that's the way it goes sometimes. Raced Wednesday evening and it went very poorly, and then took the rest of the week off. I'll start running again Thursday this week, but it has been roughly 16 months since I took a straight week off and I need to reset my training anyway. Those 16 months consisted of trying to maintain some level of fitness for 2-3 months while working longer hours followed by a 2-3 month sprint to try to find racing fitness and then cram as many races as possible in to take advantage of whatever racing fitness I was able to find. That's only going to get you so far and is only going to last so long, so while I would've liked to extend this cycle out a little further and find a chance at redemption, I think this was the better long term choice. I'll be targeting a higher mileage build throughout the fall culminating at the USA Club XC Championships from which I'll transition back into more speed work and hopefully an indoor track season.

M - 6 miles very easy.

T - 7 miles w/ 3x150, 1x200 strides.

W - 3 mile shakeout, 2.5 mile warmup, 1 mile race (4:16), 5 miles cool down including 2x 300, 200, 100.

T - S: Off

Race Report: Not sure what the deal was but it just wasn't there this time. Got out at the front of the field right behind the rabbit (semi unintentional) but after 500 it was pretty clear I was in trouble. We weren't out that fast either, maybe 62 through 409, but I was having trouble finding any snap or drive. Tried my best to hang onto the back end of the field through 1200 and then really fell off hard. I wasn't fast through 1200 even, but the last 400 was pretty bad. I think around 66 or 67. Still an awesome event and it was fun watching the elite races. Got a mini post race workout in as well with a few guys just for fun.

Set 1: 47.0, 29.6, 12.5

Set 2: 42.1, 27.3, 13.1

Thanks all this week and last for the congratulations.

statfanatic - You did manage a 1mi PR just a month or two ago. Although only a slight PR it was a good stretch of running. Alyssa and I were watching the stream of your race, was tough but it happens.

Stat - It happens. Glad to hear you took a little bit of time off, it's much deserved considering the work you've put in over the course of the season (both running and actual working... burning the midnight oil take a toll). Look forward to your fall into the XC champs... will be fun.