New Study: Vegetarians have higher risk of stroke! hahaha, lol kale breath

Interesting that this bbc article left out that meat eaters had a higher incidence of heart disease. The slight increase in stroke risk outweighed the benefits as heart disease is more prevalent https://time.com/5669628/vegetarians-vegans-stroke-study/

meat eater wrote:

You gave up bacon and you're still going to die first. Sucks to be you!

Time to meat up, sissies.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-49579820

Eaglemariah wrote:

Interesting that this bbc article left out that meat eaters had a higher incidence of heart disease.

The slight increase in stroke risk outweighed the benefits as heart disease is more prevalent

"Meat eaters", average western diet is over 2/3 plant based.

OP is a jerk.

Laughing because someone might get sick or die is just wrong. You waste air.

Interesting study on plant based diets wrote:

"Meat eaters", average western diet is over 2/3 plant based.

"Meat eaters" refers to people who eat meat, not people who only eat meat (those are called carnivores). Although I think you already knew that.

Sage, you have many times have said this with no evidence whatsoever:

No doubt vegans/vegetarians should watch their B12, D, iron levels etc. But I'd recommend all runners/athletes (regardless of diet) watch their levels on these types of things. I've seen tons of guys run and try to train at a high level while eating a bunch of red meat and they still get low on iron. They also get stress fractures, muscle tendon strains/tears, need corrected vision, have poor tooth health, and get low T....which of course may or may not be related to their diet....but I digress....[note I'm kind of joking with this last sentence as it is something that vegans often get accused of getting more often].

It's like something you tell yourself that make yourself feel better. So you have seen tons of guys training at high level who break down on a "regular meat diet?" Like who? At least give real numbers. I know that I look better without a shirt that you. I'm also taller than you.

HAHA how about some grass-fed whole fat cheese to go with that whine: "They weren't veeegaann, they were vegetarriiianss!". Hey, take a look at the thread title up there, little guy. You might want to acquaint yourself with this form of communication, which is the English language.

SDA's are an agenda-driven fundamentalist organization. Vegetarian not vegan, BTW. Surveying them on diet is like surveying priests on homosexual behavior. What they profess and the reality are two completely different things. In any case they live no longer than the Mormons, who eat meat for the most part. That's a big "negatori" I will take on cherry-picked vegan fake news, and a 1000% upvote for what I have seen and experienced first hand, as have tens of thousands of others, and buttressed by slid, impartial numbers.

Now run along to the toilet (again), that kale smoothie you had 25 minutes ago is rumbling and demanding immediate escape from parts nether to your torso. In contrast, my ribeye from this morning is gradually infusing my every tissue, my every molecule with strength, energy and complete, 100% bioavailable nutrition, thanks to what used to be a very contented cow. Life is good when you are at the top of the food chain!

Mic the Vegan on youtube is a joke. Dude has serious issues.

Interesting that YMMV ignores the posts from LM, who asks clear questions and has the most reasonable arguments of anywhere here. Hmmm

Why do mormons live a long time?

"Like many other religious groups, the Latter-day Saints have their own food traditions. They restrict their meat consumption in favor of grains, fruits and vegetables and attempt to stick to locally grown foods, among other practices."

"Its strictures against alcohol, tobacco, coffee and tea are well known. But since 1833, Otterson said, the church has also encouraged limiting meat consumption in favor of grains, fruits and vegetables."

I hate all this “all or nothing” diet advice. Neither a vegan diet or a meatatarian diet are the healthiest options (although if I was forced to choose I would probably go vegan with tons of supplementation)

The best diet to me seems to be:

1-Avoid dairy, added sugar, high glycemic carbs / most bready type carbs

2- avoid red meat (although the occasional game meat is fine - say like once a month or every couple months)

3- eat mainly fish and the occasional organic chicken as well as eggs .

4- eat lots of veg and fruit - try to stick to lower glycemic fruits.

5- avoid processed food.

That’s it! I call it the “practical” diet. Better than your pure vegan and pure meat heavy diets.

Betontrack wrote:

I hate all this “all or nothing” diet advice. Neither a vegan diet or a meatatarian diet are the healthiest options (although if I was forced to choose I would probably go vegan with tons of supplementation)

The best diet to me seems to be:

1-Avoid dairy, added sugar, high glycemic carbs / most bready type carbs

2- avoid red meat (although the occasional game meat is fine - say like once a month or every couple months)

3- eat mainly fish and the occasional organic chicken as well as eggs .

4- eat lots of veg and fruit - try to stick to lower glycemic fruits.

5- avoid processed food.

That’s it! I call it the “practical” diet. Better than your pure vegan and pure meat heavy diets.

That is how I ate stringently for two decades until my health was so bad I had to make changes or risk death or hospitalization. It is also the diet that almost every American "aspires to" as an ideal and yet fails almost every single day due to it's deficiencies and toxic effects.

What seems "extreme" to you now was the only sustainable option for ancestors 2M- >10,000 years ago, and as a result it is what our bodies run best on: red meat, lots of it, with additional fish and eggs and seasonal berries when opportunity allowed.

Ahh yes 10,000 years ago when the life expectancy was quite high!

And I’m sure because you personally got sick off a healthy diet , everyone will?

Why doesn’t everyone get sick like you off this “toxic” healthy diet?

Thanks for the info on Mormons. I spent three months in southern Utah last year and was struck by how bland, soft and submissive the true Mormons were. There is a reason why religious leaders refer to their "flock"...these people are truly human livestock in the psychic and cultural sense. Meat stirs the passions and generates original thinking and the strength to follow it up. Grains/starches/lowfat = compliance, which is the most critical power structure aspect of religious communities/cults.

If you want to know what authoritarians think about meat-eating, ask the PRC Chinese leaders what they think of the Hong Kong uprising. Hong Kong has the highest meat consumption per capita in the world, and they are far from the compliant sheep that leaders of authoritarian regimes require. Wonder why global media pounds the less meat/more plants drum each and every day into every corner of the globe? Ask yourself who owns the media(as well as academia, disease care and coporate culture in general) and what they have at stake. A bunch of healthy strong, meat-eating rebels is the last thing they want to see.

I will grant the cleverness of the SDA and LDS leaders for seeing, far in advance, the value of a grain-fed populace to serve their needs while willingly being an obedient, subservient mass of flaccid lifeless underlings.

Betontrack wrote:

Ahh yes 10,000 years ago when the life expectancy was quite high!

And I’m sure because you personally got sick off a healthy diet , everyone will?

Why doesn’t everyone get sick like you off this “toxic” healthy diet?

Get to age 63, then look around at your family, friends and acquaintances your age, and tell me how many aren't sick, worn-out, obese and abject, certainly compared to ten years prior. You can also visit the "Over 50" running thread on here and observe the litany of injuries and illness that dog those poor people. I was in worse shape than most, but that was the kick in the ass I needed to get this sorted out, which I feel I did quite admirably, being now the fittest and healthiest person that I know over 30 (and I mainly hang out with other athletes, LOTS of them).

If you are healthy now, count your frikkin blessings. Eat a standard "clean" diet, and you will here a faint ticking sound....

You seem to be ignoring me....

But, in any event, it seems the only difference you advocate from "standard" clean diet is to go easier on the fish and much higher on the red meat. Can't say I have a problem with that...if the red meat is grass fed.

Comments?

Did I miss a post of yours? Feel free to link or re-ask.

The basic diet I use is meat (nose-to-tail),fish,eggs and butterfat as tolerated. Some low-glycemic fruit in season, maybe 20g total carbs/day. Cacao once or twice a week as a treat. No other plants (I found I did have to keep some fiber in the form of cabbage for a few weeks as I transitioned in order to stay "regular". Haven't had to do that for months now).

I am on a budget and try to get my grass-fed in bulk, but often resort to lean grain-finished cuts with added grassfed suet or butter or cream. Ultimately it will be all grassfed. Fish I eat almost daily, usually high-omega3 mackerel or sardines. Also raw grassfed beef liver or cod liver daily. The liver makes a big difference overall for me. Eating window usually 9AM-3PM. One cup of tea/day and Snake Juice for all other liquids. 1/2 edible cannabis before runs and no alcohol.

I read the study wrote:

The study has limitations, including the fact that it is based on self-reporting, and that not all participants answered questions

Because they died I assume.

I can't tell if YMMV is trying to be deliberately ironic to poke fun at the "meatatarian" diet or actually buys into it?

- He ignores any posts to the contrary of what he's talking about

- bro science of case studies: "it worked for me therefore it must be the best diet"!

- bro science of "cavemen did it 10,000 years ago so it must be the way!"

- avoids vegetables (no explanation as to why)

The only evidence he provides for crazy diet is, "it worked for me!"

Haha what a nut!

betontrack wrote:

I can't tell if YMMV is trying to be deliberately ironic to poke fun at the "meatatarian" diet or actually buys into it?

- He ignores any posts to the contrary of what he's talking about

- bro science of case studies: "it worked for me therefore it must be the best diet"!

- bro science of "cavemen did it 10,000 years ago so it must be the way!"

- avoids vegetables (no explanation as to why)

The only evidence he provides for crazy diet is, "it worked for me!"

Haha what a nut!

I have posted more information on diet on this site than anyone in it's history. But the nature of nutrition science today is that for every study advocating one result, there is another with the exact opposite conclusion. Most are based on epidemiology and surveys, which are at best useful for generating hypotheses, not even close to the level theory. Even this connection of vegetarianism to stroke is as likely flawed as those making a connection of meat to heart disease. I am more compelled by results, and that is what I share.

That said, if you think that what humans ate 10,000 years ago is not relevant now, then your education has utterly failed you in regard to biology. No one with even a modicum of understanding of evolutionary biology would advocate a vegan diet for humans, any more than advocating a carnivorous diet for a horse.

As for vegetables, they are loaded with defense chemicals such as phytates, lectins and oxalates, their supposed "nutrients" are in fact nutrient analogues and are mostly not bioavailable, their fiber does more harm than good to the bowel, and their nutritive value is a net negative in relation to their toxicity. In the link above Dr. Saladino (ironic name) details the drawbacks.