Marathon training with (mostly) just a weekly long run.

Focus on the other 6 days.

Tim, I think on a cool day and a flat course, you could be close to 4:00, maybe a little under depending on how the next few weeks go. The fact that you're racing at 8:00/mile for a hilly half marathon shows you've got strength endurance. Also, 22 hilly miles, solo, on a hot day in four hours is not bad!

For comparison, take a look at my training from three years ago. Like you, I ran very low mileage, with a focus on a weekly long run. There were a few weeks where my long run was my ONLY run, or I schleduled just a very short second run. Mostly I ran only twice a week.

But, this is key: With seven weeks to go, I added a third run and bumped up my weekly mileage, peaking at 46 miles three weeks out.

You've got time to do the same, and from my experience, it can make a huge difference. Yes, I know there is an injury risk, so maybe temper that a bit? On marathon day, I ran slightly negative splits, averaging 7:52 per mile. No bonk. Age 57.

Here's a look at the 20-week buildup. How does your log compare? Before this, I was running 4 to 5 miles once or twice a week.

The first column is total weekly miles; in the second column, I've broken out all my "long runs" of 12 or more miles.

Week total -- (long run)

23.6 -- (12.0)

16.0 -- (12.0)

5.0

12.0 -- (12.0)

11.6

17.5 -- (12.0)

21.3 -- (12.0)

12.0

20.0

15.0

21.6 -- (12.0)

15.0 -- (15.0)

11.0

31.4 -- (20.0)

28.9 -- (15.4)

26.0 -- (23.0)

29.6

46.4 -- (20.0, 15.4)

18.6

4.0

Marathon 3:25:27

Back in my mid-20s to mid-30s, I ran a few marathons on much less mileage -- literally three training runs. Starting five weeks out, I'd run-walk 10 miles, recover for a week, run-walk 15 miles, recover a week, run-walk 18 miles, rest for two weeks, run marathon.

That netted times of 3:39 to 4:07. I could usually hold 8-minute miles until 18 or 20 miles, then walk-run-walk the final 6-8. Not a fun way to "run" marathons, but I kept my "marathon-a-year" streak going from 1981 to 1996.

Good luck!

Tim, regarding injuries, I'll add that during the entire year prior to that 3:25 marathon (previous post), I was injury-free. I biked about an hour a week as cross-training (one ride a week). I totally get where you're coming from.

Following that marathon, I trained more conventionally. Five or six days a week, workouts, long runs. My marathon improved to 3:07, but I was injured for most of the year. I couldn't run at all for four months.

The next year was a repeat of that. Three months off with injuries, barely salvaging a competitive season.

And THIS year? Injured, and can't race at all.

Funkhouser wrote:

The main reason for this approach is injury I find that following a conventional training plan with running 4 or 5 times a week always results in injury.

Thanks for reading an interested in any feedback.

Will keep updated if there is interest.

My feedback is you're under-training - massively - and your poor results show it. Complete waste of whatever potential you have.

It is your right to under-train and under-perform but I don't expect there will be any interest in following your updates.

HobbyJoggerSpotted wrote:

It is your right to under-train and under-perform but I don't expect there will be any interest in following your updates.

I'm interested.

Tim, please post updates! I've also been accused here "under-training," "under-performing," and wasting any potential I may have had. And that wasn't a even about the 19 mpw marathon training in my late 50s, but rather my younger days, when I was averaging 45 mpw (with a peak of 78, it's important to note). That got me to 2:40, which I know is hobby jogger status, but then so is 2:35 ... which was likely my ultimate potential, even with 100-mile weeks ... and assuming I could avoid injury at that volume!

You have talent, if you can go 3:39-4:07 on very very little mileage. There are runners who go 50-60 mpw to try to break 4.

Hi Allen.

Thank you so much for your reply which I find really useful.

I am a similar age, 55.

Have run half marathons for the last 15 years.

I think your idea of ramping it up at 7 weeks which is now, is a good idea but I need to be really careful about injury so will probably not be able to increase to that millage but will experiment and see how it goes.

Part of the issue is hills (which I love) but everywhere round here is hilly my last 17 miles was 2000 feet of gain so although this helps with fitness its also a big factor with injury.

Sounds like you have similar issues to me with injuries its a pain isn't it!

To others who say I am under training You are right BUT much as I would love to follow a more regular training plan the fact is I can't as its counter productive as every time I do that amount of runs I get injured and have to cut right back sometimes even stopping so its counter productive.

This is probably due to me being older and also the fact that my job involves me being on my feet for 9 hours a day so basically my joints just can't take that and the running.

For some reason doing say 20 miles a week consisting of mainly one long run and one or 2 very short easy runs gives me much less injury issues than spreading the same millage over the week.

The injuries are never muscle based but more often ligament/ achilles tendon based and despite doing strengthening exercises trying different shoes they still occur.

Running is my hobby I love it and much as I want a good time I don't want it to be at the cost of not being able to run for months after.

This happened a few years ago and I thought I would not run again and it affected my work too so its just not worth the risk (I could not run more than a few miles for 2 years)

I do find the hitt cross training helps and although not as good as interval /speed running it improves my overall performance.I typically do this 2 or 3 times a week on the cross trainer/bike at the gym.

Next long run is scheduled for next wednesday which is 6 weeks till the marathon.

Will keep you posted.

Cheers Tim.

Thank you.

Funkhouser wrote:

I think your idea of ramping it up at 7 weeks which is now, is a good idea but I need to be really careful about injury so will probably not be able to increase to that mileage but will experiment and see how it goes.

Seven weeks out, I increased my mileage by adding a third run and lengthening my long run. Still, the weekly totals were only about 29 miles. The one 46-mile week was because two long runs happened to fall in the same calendar week -- six days apart. So, not big miles, but it made a big difference, I think.

At this point, with seven weeks to go, you're ahead of my 2016 training in many ways. You're running 20 mpw, while I had averaged only 15 mpw for the previous 13 weeks. Your long runs are already 20+ miles; my longest at that point had been only 15 miles. You're training on hills; my loops were all flat. You have a strong cross-training program; I biked once or twice a week. You've been racing half marathons; I hadn't raced at all in a decade.

I think on a cool day and flat course, you'll be amazed at how comfortable and easy 8:30 pace will be.

Interesting that you're about the same age as I was in 2016, and also that you're on your feet all day. I'm an architectural restoration contractor, working solo -- no crew, so on my feet, also, often with hard manual labor. It certainly can impact training.

Again, best wishes. Looking forward to seeing how it goes for you.

Thanks for your support will keep you posted.

I suspect you'll be able to get through a marathon just fine off this training. I've seen cyclists who didn't really train much on weekdays do decent century rides (relatively speaking) by getting good long rides on weekends. The fact that you ran a 22 miler solo just about guarantees you can finish a marathon. Chances are you'll average a little faster pace than you did on that training run, especially if the course and conditions are more favorable on race day.

HI Allen and anyone else still interested.

An update.

As often happens things have not quite gone to plan but not a disaster.

Had a bad cold which knocked me out for just over a week at a critical time and only did limited training.

2 weeks ago I decided to try increasing my pace on my 20 mile run. BIG MISTAKE at about 13 miles was almost totally spent and had to push myself to finish and walk the last mile.

Decided to try and analyse what went wrong and did not take long basically made the classic mistake of pushing to hard early on with my heart rate way to high for that early in the run.

So last week when I did my 20 mile long run again decided not to worry at all about time and just go at a slow pace that feels right and had a much better run was slow but felt ok at the the end so obviously lifted my confidence a lot.

Have now been doing 20 mile long runs most weeks for the last 8 weeks or so and some cross training in the week but very little running other than that.

I have decided not to have a goal time for the race and to start really slow and if after half way or so I feel good will gently crank it up a little.

Will use it as a learning experience and not worry times but of course you always a time in your head and sub 5 hours would be nice.

The race is 2 weeks today.

Cheers

Tim

In comparison to weekly mileage long runs mean little.

If someone doesn’t enjoy getting out every day and running. Then why run a marathon?

In 1990 (I can't believe next year will be the 30th anniversary) I ran The Wineglass Marathon in 2:49 off of about 50-55 mpw with no workouts- just a weekly long run.

You can go sub 4:00 but, IMHO, try running one of your long runs at a faster pace. Go 17 or 18 (not 20+).

When I ran my 2:49 I ran the first 10 miles of my long runs at 6:00 pace then hung on. I actually ran them hard.

Maybe do this just once, at YOUR marathon pace of course, to get your legs moving at that pace.

Good luck and keep posting.

Funkhauser, while you've gotten some decent ideas, no one is addressing the root of your problem, which is recurring injuries.

You need to identify specifically what is causing your injury(ies) and take steps to correct it/them. It's obvious that you haven't got a handle on that yet or else you'd be running injury free.

You should identify all the potential culprits and systematically address them. Also, many runners get the steps of injury recovery out of order or they try to return to normal running before the injury has healed.

You mentioned Achilles problems. By now, you might have scar tissue. I don't know. A sports doctor could probably tell and a therapist could break it up. My other recommendations would be this.

During the recovery process, put heel lifts in both shoes. Put heel lifts in your everyday shoes, too. Avoid any movements that put strain on the Achilles. That includes running uphill, accelerations, fast starts, speedwork, and running fast. Tape your Achilles before you run. (There's a KT tape method for Achilles. I found I had to anchor it around the calf to keep it from just peeling off, but it definitely helped while healing.) If it's a high Achilles/lower calf injury, wear compression socks while it heals. Avoid painkillers. You want to feel the slightest pain so you can back off before it becomes worse.

AVOID STRETCHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unless they're stretching under a PT's supervision, most runners stretch the wrong way. They simply lack the discipline or body awareness to stretch properly. It's the same with the "strengthening" exercises you've been doing. If you stretch too hard or strengthen too hard before the muscle/tendon is fully healed, it can re-tear and the healing process must start over from day one.

It's a testament to the remarkable healing power of the human body that so many runners can do these things wrong and still recover! For the rest of us, we have to be very careful with injuries.

If you don't have proper support in your everyday shoes, you can re-tear the muscle/tendon and the healing must start over from day one.

When I had an Achilles strain, I did all the above and taped/compression socks for about 6 weeks after I was pain free to allow the scar tissue to fully heal and be as strong as the surrounding tissue.

I would also suggest that you try Hokas. There's a reason why older runners prefer them. They help prevent recurring injuries.

I love running and enjoy the long runs the most so training for a marathon is enjoyable for me.

Its not because I dont enjoy running that I dont run on more days its because I get injured.

I work 9 hours a day on my feet and clock up around 15k steps and find running before/after that is to much for my (old) joints!

Thank you so much for your reply some great advice.

I have searched long and hard for solutions to my injuries and things have improved to a point at one time I thought I would never run again after having knee issues for years.

These are now manageable thanks mainly to foam roller work and easing off when I get warning signs.

As you say the achilles issues are a big problem not helped by the fact that where I live all runs involve hills, usually at least 1k feet of gain on a 10k run and to be honest I love running on hills.

Interestingly I have tried much of what you mention and it does help .I run in hokas and love them and use inserts when things play up.

I think I could run a lot more if it was not for my job (see last post) but feel that at 55 my joints may just not be able to take much more of an increase in millage on top of what I already do at work.Or if I am to increase it needs to be done very gradually.

I do regularly see a physio who is very good (has run triathlons for his country) and it certainly helps.Like you he is also not a fan at all of static stretches he recommends starting and finishing very easy as an alternative.

Thanks again

Tim

Thanks sounds like good advice.

May try splitting my long run over 2 days this week will try cranking it up for at least some of it.

Funkhouser wrote:

I have decided not to have a goal time for the race and to start really slow and if after half way or so I feel good will gently crank it up a little.

Will use it as a learning experience and not worry times but of course you always a time in your head and sub 5 hours would be nice.

The race is 2 weeks today.

Tim, thanks for the update. I've been wondering how things were going. I'm sure you'll be under 5 hours. Enjoy!

runn: This year's Wineglass Marathon was this morning. If all had gone according to plan, I would be in Corning right now, celebrating a sub-3 at age 60. Less than a year ago, it was looking very possible. But, alas, it wasn't to be.

I thought perhaps I was there in 1990 when you ran 2:49. Nope, checking my records, I see I chose a different marathon that year. I ran Wineglass in 1986, 1988, 1989, 1993, 1994.

fisky: Great essay and advice!