https://www.european-athletics.org/news/article=chemtai-salpeter-smashes-european-10km-record-with-tilburg/index.html
2nd was also an Israeli/Ethiopian runner, Selamawit Dagnachew in 31:20
2nd was also an Israeli/Ethiopian runner, Selamawit Dagnachew in 31:20
We were discussing this woman's massive improvements a few months back. That is a super sauce time.
You were discussing without knowing anything, like normally do. Especially, you don't have any clue about the limits that clean athletes can achieve with proper training, if really talented. In your mind, only doping works, and sadly this is the wrong mentality of the most part of LR posters.
Renato Canova wrote:
You were discussing without knowing anything, like normally do. Especially, you don't have any clue about the limits that clean athletes can achieve with proper training, if really talented. In your mind, only doping works, and sadly this is the wrong mentality of the most part of LR posters.
Then give a short/small overview of the training. What are the key sessions/changes to her training that allowed her from being stuck in the 35-36 minute range for many years to improve to become one of the best in the world?
Is it just higher mileage? Specific workouts? Special strength training? As I mentioned in another thread, if the training is really so effective there could be more runners in the world capable of running 30-31 minutes (or 27-28 minutes if male) if they would just optimize their training which is hard to believe as the difference between different training programs is only believed to be a few %, with the main factors still being talent, rate of adaption and resistance vs injuries.
You're being a comedian, right? So a female gets to age 28/29, after years of running and suddenly she discovers she is "talented." Now I'm not talking about being talented at darts or snooker, she is now one of a handful of the fittest females in the history of the human race. Either you are incredibly naive or part of the problem. Further proof the sport is in serious trouble.
i have my suspicions of course,but its fantastic to see two israeli women run so well. its also great to see an israeli ethiopian run 31.20,because up until now we've only seen their men dominate distance running in israel.
You 'have your suspicions' but it's 'fantastic' a suspect Ethiopian is smashing Israeli records?
You accuse everyone of doping.
She turns 31 this year. She was sub elite for most of her career.
It could be that her husband/coach is a genius, but the way he kept coming back under another handle in that earlier thread and accusing Americans and Europeans of being juiced makes me rather suspicious.
Subway Surfers wrote:
You're being a comedian, right? So a female gets to age 28/29, after years of running and suddenly she discovers she is "talented." Now I'm not talking about being talented at darts or snooker, she is now one of a handful of the fittest females in the history of the human race. Either you are incredibly naive or part of the problem. Further proof the sport is in serious trouble.
This x1000
You really don't understand anything, I strongly doubt about your level of comprehension.
It's not "after years of running" she discovered was talented. It's she discovered the "running" itself.
If you have a top talented athlete who doesn't train, or runs 3 times per week, jogging 30' easy every time, how much do you think can be his performance in 10 km ? Maybe 33' ? But when is 30 he discover the real training, and starts to have a real interest in running. So, goes for training every day, starts to use some methodological strategy ("training" is very much different from "running"), for example introducing intervals in the plan, and "tempo" efforts on different distances and different level of "internal load", and in his first year after discovering training (he's already 31) is able to run a little bit under 29'. The following year he starts to train 12-13 times per week, reaching a total volume of 180 km per week, and inside the volume is able to increase the intensity. And, when 32, at the end of the year can run under 27'30".
This is something absolutely common in Africa, less common in Europe. But sometimes happens : I give you an example, with the Italian Marathon runner Catherine Bertone.
She is born in 1972, now is 47. When was 15, she was trained by my wife, and was able to run 800m in 2'27". She never showed any talent. She quitted running, also if continued to have passion for that activity.ù
She became doctor in Pediatry, and became the responsible of the department in the hospital of Aosta.
When she married, the husband was a runner as amateur, and she started to run again with him, for staying together and for fun. One session every day, never twice because of her professional job.
She ran her first Marathon in 2003 (2:43:56), the next year improved a little (2:42:24), for 3 years ran only mountain races, then in 2007 ran again in 2:43:18.ù
Lonestar XC you can write whatever you want. Renato probably doesn't care about you
Hi back into hibernation El Kiprop.
Spotter of El K wrote:
Hi back into hibernation El Kiprop.
Bro, I'm just telling the truth. Do you think that pro athletes/coaches care what people write on running forums? You would probably never say to them in real life that they are dopers. Or even if you said things like that to for example Marcin Lewandowski (who was accused there of doping) he would probably just laugh at you. You can tell all your friends that athlete X is doping, athlete B is doping, athlete A is doping, but who cares. You have no evidence, you've never met those athletes/coaches and you probably won't in your entire life.
Israel is not in Europe.
Geography matters wrote:
Israel is not in Europe.
I don't know why Israel's teams also participate in European championships. That's weird.
Israel has to perform sports with the European associations because they are mobbed by the Arab countries in Asia and cannot perform in their association.
But there are several countries that are on the border between Europe and Asia, are not mobbed by the Arabs and nevertheless members of the European associations: Turkey and all/most of the Caucasus like Armenia and Azerbaidjan.
Jo72 wrote:
Israel has to perform sports with the European associations because they are mobbed by the Arab countries in Asia and cannot perform in their association.
But there are several countries that are on the border between Europe and Asia, are not mobbed by the Arabs and nevertheless members of the European associations: Turkey and all/most of the Caucasus like Armenia and Azerbaidjan.
Israel may be the last standing European colonial settler project, but it is not in Europe.
Renato Canova wrote:
You really don't understand anything, I strongly doubt about your level of comprehension.
It's not "after years of running" she discovered was talented. It's she discovered the "running" itself.
If you have a top talented athlete who doesn't train, or runs 3 times per week, jogging 30' easy every time, how much do you think can be his performance in 10 km ? Maybe 33' ? But when is 30 he discover the real training, and starts to have a real interest in running. So, goes for training every day, starts to use some methodological strategy ("training" is very much different from "running"), for example introducing intervals in the plan, and "tempo" efforts on different distances and different level of "internal load", and in his first year after discovering training (he's already 31) is able to run a little bit under 29'. The following year he starts to train 12-13 times per week, reaching a total volume of 180 km per week, and inside the volume is able to increase the intensity. And, when 32, at the end of the year can run under 27'30".
This is something absolutely common in Africa, less common in Europe. But sometimes happens : I give you an example, with the Italian Marathon runner Catherine Bertone.
She is born in 1972, now is 47. When was 15, she was trained by my wife, and was able to run 800m in 2'27". She never showed any talent. She quitted running, also if continued to have passion for that activity.ù
She became doctor in Pediatry, and became the responsible of the department in the hospital of Aosta.
When she married, the husband was a runner as amateur, and she started to run again with him, for staying together and for fun. One session every day, never twice because of her professional job.
She ran her first Marathon in 2003 (2:43:56), the next year improved a little (2:42:24), for 3 years ran only mountain races, then in 2007 ran again in 2:43:18.ù
Good post, and you are right that there are plenty of cases of people starting to run very late in life, and becoming national elite in less than 1 year, and eventually going to Olympics (Steve Way, Jack Foster, Priscilla Welch, Hammou Boutayeb, etc). These are "late bloomers" just like Bertone was. However, with Salpeter the situation is different.
She competed every year, from 2011-2019. From 2011-2016, she ran the same 10,000m race every year, and ALWAYS had times of 35-36 min. Look at her progression (PB for each season on IAAF races):
PERFORMANCE PLACE DATE
2019 31:15.78 London (GBR) 06 JUL 2019
2018 31:33.03 London (GBR) 19 MAY 2018
2017 32:43.89 Tel Aviv (ISR) 20 APR 2017
2016 35:01.33 Tel Aviv (ISR) 21 APR 2016
2015 36:05.01 Tel Aviv (ISR) 28 APR 2015
2014 35:12.99 Tel Aviv (ISR) 08 MAY 2014
2012 35:37.59 Tel Aviv (ISR) 02 MAY 2012
Dan Salpeter started coaching her in 2011. Even under him, she did not improve her 10,000m time for 5 years. Only when he started to get consultation from you, she started improving significantly and rapidly. So either Dan Salpeter's training in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 (first half) was ineffective, or something else must have happened in the second half of 2016/early 2017 that caused her to start improving after stagnating for so many years.
If the training was indeed ineffective from 2011-2016, you should explain what changes you did to the training that caused the improvements, and why Dan Salpeter and her club "Maccabi Tel Aviv" weren't able to improve her, did they not know that in order to improve times more than 20 miles a week would be necessary?
Catherine was essentially a Mountain runner. In 2008 ran 1:17:24 in HM, in 2009 ran 2:40:19 in Marathon, but her career changed when she decided to dedicate to road races instead than to Mountain Races.
Her progression :
2012 (40y) : 2:34:54
2013 (41y) : 2:34:24 (and 1:15:36 HM)
2014 (42y) : 2:32:46 (and 1:15:49)
2015 (43y) : 2:34:54 (and 1:14:49)
2016 (44y) : 2:30:19 (and 1:13:42) - Selected for OG in Rio after a strong mediatic campaign, because Italian Olympic Committe (CONI) didn't want to send Olympic an athlete 44y old. In Rio she was 25th in 2:33:29.
2017 (45y) : 2:28:34 in Berlin (1:14:56 in HM)
2018 (46y) : 2:30:06 (Selected for European Championships, 8th position)
2019 (47y) : 2:31:07
This year she didn't have full training, because wanted to accumulate days of holidays (not used) for having next year the opportunity to train for Olympics, planning some period without working in the hospital for training twice per day.
And many, among LR posters, look at 2:28 as a performance needing big talent for being achieved…
Coming back to Lonah, when Dan Salpeter came to meet me asking to share my experiences about the preparation for Marathon, her PB (at the end of 2016) were 35'01" - 1:14'11" and an average of 2:40 in Marathon without any real preparation (2:40:17 winning Tel Aviv on 27th February, DNF in Olympics, and 2:40:16 in Berlin on 25th Sep).
After the first time me and Dan met together (not only one time, but several times in Kenya), Lonah started to train more, as volume and intensity, and improved her PB till 32'43"89 in 10000 and 1:12:48 in HM. However, she was far from any limit for WCh 2017 in London, and the only option was to run Marathon (the limit was a ridiculous 2:45) again without any long run. And, again, she ran 2:40:22, because without specific training Marathon is Always long for everybody…
From September 2017 we can say the real activity of Lonah started. She was in Kenya all winter, and, when I saw her training on track, I told Dan he had at home a "diamond" that needed to be worked, but had the potential to produce top results. Lonah ran WHMCh in Valencia, and destroyed her PB with 68:58 (12th position).
After that performance, I told Dan that Lonah was ready for looking at an international activity : assistance of a manager, different level of competition, and of course different level of training.
From that time, her career showed a continuous improvement : in 2018, NR 1500m in 4'11"69, NR 3000m in 8'42"88, NR in 10000m in 31'39"63 and 31'33"03, NR 15 km on road in 47'38" (best performance in the world), NR in HM twice (1:08:58 in Valencia and 1:07:55 in Lisbon), NR in Marathon in Firenze (2:24:17).
Lonah likes to compete : in 2018 she ran in 19 competitions : 9 on track (2 times 1500m, 2 times 3000m, 2 times 5000m, 3 times 10000m), 8 on road (2 times 10 km, 2 times 15 km, 1 time 10 Miles, 2 times HM, 1 time full Marathon) and 2 in Cross Country.
This year, she had a logic adaptation to a higher quality in training, also adding several long runs, since she started to look at Marathon as main event. Everything is planned (till now she didn't have any injury…), and, with her continuity, her results are not a surprise for everybody follows her activity on the ground (not using a computer from his house, without knowing anything about the real life….).
At the end of the day, the main mistake of LR posters is that they don't know anything about training and its effect, and are Always surprised by big improvements, without considering a total change of training, in both the direction of volume and quality.
But, of course, in every mouth there is a tongue….. but not in every head there is a brain !
Renato Canova wrote:
Catherine was essentially a Mountain runner. In 2008 ran 1:17:24 in HM, in 2009 ran 2:40:19 in Marathon, but her career changed when she decided to dedicate to road races instead than to Mountain Races.
Her progression :
2012 (40y) : 2:34:54
2013 (41y) : 2:34:24 (and 1:15:36 HM)
2014 (42y) : 2:32:46 (and 1:15:49)
2015 (43y) : 2:34:54 (and 1:14:49)
2016 (44y) : 2:30:19 (and 1:13:42) - Selected for OG in Rio after a strong mediatic campaign, because Italian Olympic Committe (CONI) didn't want to send Olympic an athlete 44y old. In Rio she was 25th in 2:33:29.
2017 (45y) : 2:28:34 in Berlin (1:14:56 in HM)
2018 (46y) : 2:30:06 (Selected for European Championships, 8th position)
2019 (47y) : 2:31:07
This year she didn't have full training, because wanted to accumulate days of holidays (not used) for having next year the opportunity to train for Olympics, planning some period without working in the hospital for training twice per day.
And many, among LR posters, look at 2:28 as a performance needing big talent for being achieved…
Coming back to Lonah, when Dan Salpeter came to meet me asking to share my experiences about the preparation for Marathon, her PB (at the end of 2016) were 35'01" - 1:14'11" and an average of 2:40 in Marathon without any real preparation (2:40:17 winning Tel Aviv on 27th February, DNF in Olympics, and 2:40:16 in Berlin on 25th Sep).
After the first time me and Dan met together (not only one time, but several times in Kenya), Lonah started to train more, as volume and intensity, and improved her PB till 32'43"89 in 10000 and 1:12:48 in HM. However, she was far from any limit for WCh 2017 in London, and the only option was to run Marathon (the limit was a ridiculous 2:45) again without any long run. And, again, she ran 2:40:22, because without specific training Marathon is Always long for everybody…
From September 2017 we can say the real activity of Lonah started. She was in Kenya all winter, and, when I saw her training on track, I told Dan he had at home a "diamond" that needed to be worked, but had the potential to produce top results. Lonah ran WHMCh in Valencia, and destroyed her PB with 68:58 (12th position).
After that performance, I told Dan that Lonah was ready for looking at an international activity : assistance of a manager, different level of competition, and of course different level of training.
From that time, her career showed a continuous improvement : in 2018, NR 1500m in 4'11"69, NR 3000m in 8'42"88, NR in 10000m in 31'39"63 and 31'33"03, NR 15 km on road in 47'38" (best performance in the world), NR in HM twice (1:08:58 in Valencia and 1:07:55 in Lisbon), NR in Marathon in Firenze (2:24:17).
Lonah likes to compete : in 2018 she ran in 19 competitions : 9 on track (2 times 1500m, 2 times 3000m, 2 times 5000m, 3 times 10000m), 8 on road (2 times 10 km, 2 times 15 km, 1 time 10 Miles, 2 times HM, 1 time full Marathon) and 2 in Cross Country.
This year, she had a logic adaptation to a higher quality in training, also adding several long runs, since she started to look at Marathon as main event. Everything is planned (till now she didn't have any injury…), and, with her continuity, her results are not a surprise for everybody follows her activity on the ground (not using a computer from his house, without knowing anything about the real life….).
At the end of the day, the main mistake of LR posters is that they don't know anything about training and its effect, and are Always surprised by big improvements, without considering a total change of training, in both the direction of volume and quality.
But, of course, in every mouth there is a tongue….. but not in every head there is a brain !
Well said Renato. I couldn't of put it better myself. This is literally letsrun in a nutshell.
Do you know Lonah and Dan had a baby in the meantime ? Do you know she ran only twice per week till when they married, and the longest "jog" was 30' ? Do you know she had to stop breast-feeding in order to run Olympics, and for that reason she felt a lot of pain during the race and had to stop ?
So, don't do the same mistake of Subway. You can run every year the same race, but when are not trained of course you run very much slower than when in good training (and she already ran, before the start of the collaboration between me and Dan, 32'43", well different from 35'01").
You have to look what there is BEHIND any performance, something the most part of people don't know, if not involved in this type of athletics full time.