There are many studies associating CV pace with increased injury risk. Realistically, for optimal training, one should spend as little time at CV pace as possible. The only tried and true principles of reaching peak performance are hard and fast long runs and hard intervals on the track.
Liberals just want to take the easy way out and reach for ineffective, dangerous training techniques where you never have to run hard (CV, easy miles, etc).
Coach Tinman needed Drew to run so he could make the team as his biggest focus for 2019 was securing a coaching stipend and group sponsorship.
Mission possibly accomplished except Adidas may realize than nobody else is remotely close so why not just keep sponsoring Drew.
He has withdrawn from Worlds.
Now we will see if he ends up with Terrance Mahon after he doesn’t make Olympic team (can’t get standard or top 3).
He is a great you g talent, but his coach is too green and nobody to push him in training.
Libertarian Centrist wrote:
There are many studies associating CV pace with increased injury risk. Realistically, for optimal training, one should spend as little time at CV pace as possible. The only tried and true principles of reaching peak performance are hard and fast long runs and hard intervals on the track.
Liberals just want to take the easy way out and reach for ineffective, dangerous training techniques where you never have to run hard (CV, easy miles, etc).
Would you cite one such study?
Tin... man wrote:
Drew looks almost as bad as Gwen Jorgenson.
I'm glad you didn't say "almost as bad as Rosie Ruiz".
Facebook snooper wrote:
Drew Hunter's Facebook entry of Aug 28th spells out a few things. Straight from Drew (and the bold typeface was my addition):
I just want to thank everyone for the support they have given throughout Inside Tinman Elite this summer. Our main goal was to share details of our running and non-running lives to those who support us so dearly. By doing that, we took some risks in showing some things that may or may not have been somewhat controversial in this series. Going into USA championships I had a decision to make—that decision was whether or not to run on a foot that was definitely not 100%. After talking it over with my coach, my soft tissue therapist, my teammates and family, we decided that running USA champs was in my best interest. My goal for the entire season was to qualify for the world championships and deep down I knew that was still possible—but only if I gave myself a shot. Never would I support someone running on an injury or running through something that could potentially hurt them further down the road.
Thank you for the support,
Drew Hunter
I know the video lists three injuries. It's my guess that Drew suffered something worse in the last half lap of his 5k in Des Moines (others have already speculated on this), but going into the race, from his Facebook statement, it sure seems clear that he put some solid thought into whether or not to run on a damaged foot - and with the input of knowledgeable people. (I don't buy the "Tinman coerced Drew into running for selfish reasons" silliness.)
Listing those three injuries, but without corroborating explanation, makes it seem to the average viewer that Drew should have known better than to race that day. I think the presentation in the video doesn't do Drew any favors with his detractors, or with the know-it-alls who can't possibly know even the half of it.
I'm more than willing to give Drew the benefit of the doubt this time. I also know better than to take for granted anything (favorable or unfavorable) posted on LRC.
Some of the ugly speculation seen in above posts is nothing more than a marriage of guesswork and negativity. I think of how lame it would be for me to predict, in advance, how running back X will do on Sunday based on talk radio's discussion of his hip pointer. My point of view might turn out the be spot-on accurate, but any gambler who wins will tell you that he knew all along! We're not Drew Hunter. We don't really know the nature of his injuries going into the Nationals. We don't know if his injuries were compounded by racing. We don't really know his coach's influence, or his parents', or his sponsor's. We don't know how stubborn he was, despite his statement on Facebook.
However, what I sense, at any rate, is that Drew is a smart cookie, and very aware of his long-term commitment to his "job". If he says these things on Facebook, he is presenting his honest assessment. That doesn't mean he didn't make a mistake by running the 5k, thus making his injuries worse, but who, among us, hasn't made a call that backfired, regarding an injury? Sometimes we're right, sometimes not. I'll bet any day that Drew Hunter's self-analysis is thorough, measured, honest, balanced, reasonable, and, well, you get the picture.
So they made their decision to race based on the input of his "soft tissue therapist"??? A professional outfit would get a workup from a competent sports medicine physician, who would have gotten an MRI and diagnosed the stress fracture or at least impending stress fracture (stress reaction/bone bruise) and plantar fascia damage. How foolish, as someone managing a professional athlete, to not seek the actual diagnosis in order to determine the risk of competing with an unknown injury.
Just wow... wrote:
So they made their decision to race based on the input of his "soft tissue therapist"??? A professional outfit would get a workup from a competent sports medicine physician, who would have gotten an MRI and diagnosed the stress fracture or at least impending stress fracture (stress reaction/bone bruise) and plantar fascia damage. How foolish, as someone managing a professional athlete, to not seek the actual diagnosis in order to determine the risk of competing with an unknown injury.
Maybe the injury is very difficult to diagnose?
This sucks for Drew.
But can we honestly think he has a future in the sport now? Is he going to be able to come back from this. He’s already made the huge mistake of going pro, now with this injury there is zero chance he is ahead training wise where he would have been? Was his first contract as big as what his would have been going pro after 2-4 years of college and some national titles? Cause his next contract isn’t going to be pretty for him.
Indoor? wrote:
This sucks for Drew.
But can we honestly think he has a future in the sport now? Is he going to be able to come back from this. He’s already made the huge mistake of going pro, now with this injury there is zero chance he is ahead training wise where he would have been? Was his first contract as big as what his would have been going pro after 2-4 years of college and some national titles? Cause his next contract isn’t going to be pretty for him.
I'd say since he did make the team there's still some good in there for him, he has the ability to while injured so if you look at that, you can see a healthy Drew would've done more damage
tldr: He increased from 80 mpw to 2 weeks of 90 mpw consecutively, which his foot couldn't handle. After it just got worse.
Also notable: He refused to do an MRI, because he didn't wanna know how bad it actually was. Made it through Des Moines but was completely toast afterwards.
Two mistakes that shouldn't happen. This doesn't sound like Tinman at all, he wouldn't increase the mileage like that nor would he recommend to skip an MRI and run a race on a serious injury. This sounds like it is solely on Hunter, or maybe his parents.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
This doesn't sound like Tinman at all, he wouldn't increase the mileage like that nor would he recommend to skip an MRI and run a race on a serious injury. This sounds like it is solely on Hunter, or maybe his parents.
Blame the athlete not the coach? Isn’t the coach’s job to take control and manage the athlete?
rare wrote:
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
This doesn't sound like Tinman at all, he wouldn't increase the mileage like that nor would he recommend to skip an MRI and run a race on a serious injury. This sounds like it is solely on Hunter, or maybe his parents.
Blame the athlete not the coach? Isn’t the coach’s job to take control and manage the athlete?
Hunter trained in Boulder while his coach lived thousands of k away. I don't know whether he just followed Tinman's training 100% or he added something himself because he was so ambitious to succeed this year. I'm just saying increasing mileage from 70-80 mpw to 2x90 mpw in a row doesn't sound Tinman-like, he stated numerous times he would never increase weekly mileage by more than 30 minutes, which for Hunter would only be around 4 miles in Boulder.
However, it could also be that Tinman gave up on his own principles since he needed a successful performance just as much as Hunter, he wanted to have a breakthrough moment with Tinman Elite and run well in Des Moines and send him to Doha. But that sounds even more ridiculous than just Hunter trying to add 10 miles to the weekly schedule because he thought it would help.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
rare wrote:
Blame the athlete not the coach? Isn’t the coach’s job to take control and manage the athlete?
Hunter trained in Boulder while his coach lived thousands of k away. I don't know whether he just followed Tinman's training 100% or he added something himself because he was so ambitious to succeed this year. I'm just saying increasing mileage from 70-80 mpw to 2x90 mpw in a row doesn't sound Tinman-like, he stated numerous times he would never increase weekly mileage by more than 30 minutes, which for Hunter would only be around 4 miles in Boulder.
However, it could also be that Tinman gave up on his own principles since he needed a successful performance just as much as Hunter, he wanted to have a breakthrough moment with Tinman Elite and run well in Des Moines and send him to Doha. But that sounds even more ridiculous than just Hunter trying to add 10 miles to the weekly schedule because he thought it would help.
Tinman needed Drew to make it to worlds even more than Drew needed it.
It's easy to talk, it's harder when you are put in a situation like this. Tinman is human. He's going to screw up, like he did in this case.
Scarecrow wrote:
Tinman needed Drew to make it to worlds even more than Drew needed it.
It's easy to talk, it's harder when you are put in a situation like this. Tinman is human. He's going to screw up, like he did in this case.
You don't think they discussed this between them? It Drew's choice, though isn't it?
syco wrote:
Libertarian Centrist wrote:
There are many studies associating CV pace with increased injury risk. Realistically, for optimal training, one should spend as little time at CV pace as possible. The only tried and true principles of reaching peak performance are hard and fast long runs and hard intervals on the track.
Liberals just want to take the easy way out and reach for ineffective, dangerous training techniques where you never have to run hard (CV, easy miles, etc).
Would you cite one such study?
No. The burden of proof is not on me. It's up to the liberals who want to shove their way of life down my throat to prove that CV is safe. Until then I will prioritize the safety of myself and my family.
Libertarian Centrist wrote:
syco wrote:
Would you cite one such study?
No. The burden of proof is not on me. It's up to the liberals who want to shove their way of life down my throat to prove that CV is safe. Until then I will prioritize the safety of myself and my family.
I know a guy who got AIDS from doing CV. People need to be told of the dangers.
This whole situation is very typical of athletes with an online coach. I see it all the time.
I'm so happy for Ben True.
LappedMiler wrote:
rare wrote:
Also, saying someone is “really, really popular” sounds like something Trump would say ?
You know, I say a lot of things that are "like something Trump would say". So do you. So does anyone who has half a brain (like me) and who speaks/writes English, no matter what his or her political beliefs are. ?
By the way, I'll say it again. Drew Hunter is REALLY, REALLY popular. It's obvious, and no doubt some of his fellow competitors are jealous. Why is he popular?
In part, it's because he is young, well-spoken, and presumably well-paid as the first-ever distance runner to go pro right out of high school. That last presumption is probably impressive to the average person.
In part, it's because he had such a storied high school career.
In part, it's because, at a young age, he is already a national champion - despite what some idiots hold against him because he won it out of the B heat! (Hey, boys and girls, don't forget to harbor a little hate for those A heat runners who, despite their golden opportunities, failed to grab the brass ring.)
In part, it's because as a young pro, he has continued to improve every single year.
In part, it's because he and his fellow Tinmen go out of their way to relate to the people who support the sport. The Tinmen encourage everyone who wants - which won't include the snobs with sunburned nostrils - to follow distance running and embrace the sport. The Tinmen hold public meet-and-greets, including public runs. Their videos, which are appealing to all except the bloviating sourpusses, strike a chord with most runners or fans, because the Tinmen are not acting like the elite keep-your-distance athletes, who abound. The Tinmen are honest and open, and, very importantly, their videos show that they're not superhuman, just super-determined. Sometimes they fail, and sometimes they're injured, but they have a work ethic and a fun-damental philosophy: that is, to have fun and to make the sport fun to follow.
This makes them REALLY, REALLY appealing. As their most talented team member, so far, Drew is REALLY, REALLY popular. No surprise there.
Who, other than Allyson Felix, was more popular than Drew Hunter at the Nationals? Which male athlete got more selfie requests than Drew Hunter? Noah Lyles, maybe? Oh, he's ANOTHER GOOF, according to LRC's snobbish minority. I don't know, maybe Centro is tops because of his awesome career record, including that impressive Rio gold, but Drew is high on the list. REALLY.
Now, the big question remains: Did Drew go too far by running on a bum foot? Only time will tell on that one. Quit blaming the coach. It's Drew who chose to go to Des Moines and compete, despite adversity. His coach didn't make him do it. Neither did Drew's parents, who were there. Drew did it. He's not a puppet on the Tinman's manipulative strings. Drew made his bed and must lie in it, and I bet he'll be the first to agree with that statement.
Is this is serious and not trolling than yikes. No grip on reality.
After Drew misses the Olympics, Adidas will have a sit down with him and ask "hey bud, WT F are you doing with an online high school coach? Time to work with a professional coach because that's "what professionals do". They're paying the bills, they call the shots.
Is there a rule against attaching a helium balloon to yourself while running a road race?
Am I living in the twilight zone? The Boston Marathon weather was terrible!
How rare is it to run a sub 5 minute mile AND bench press 225?
Move over Mark Coogan, Rojo and John Kellogg share their 3 favorite mile workouts
Mark Coogan says that if you could only do 3 workouts as a 1500m runner you should do these
Red Bull (who sponsors Mondo) calls Mondo the pole vaulting Usain Bolt. Is that a fair comparison?