Why would a new professional want to join the Bowerman Track Club?

Interesting points. NOP has been more successful than BTC at global champs. However, BTC has had a ton of success at the domestic level. If you can stay healthy, a big if, Jerry will get you ready at USAs. BTC has had varied success at worlds but they have three medals, no golds. Salazar’s group has been a bit smaller historically but has had more medals and more golds.

Pretend you’re a top athlete who just graduated college. Do you join NOP with all of the doping allegations? Or join Jerry’s group? Jerry’s group seems like a big, fun team. Kind of like college. NOP doesn’t give the same vibe.

OTC is out. A total graveyard. Yes, Mead, Blankenship and Amos have had solid results (and now Green) but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Because they got a Nike contract and don't want to be coached by a cheater. And because they probably don't base their decision off of one meet.

LdnPrideAle wrote:

After watching Zurich yesterday, in particular seeing Brazier's amazing run and the Oregon Project go 1-2 in the 1500, I got to wondering why a professional would want to go to the Bowerman Track Club (excluding female marathon runners).

From an economic standpoint it doesn't really make sense to never race in the Diamond League if you genuinely believe you're capable of winning medals at the World Championships/Olympics. I know there are significant bonuses to winning medals, but there are also big bonuses for running fast times and prize money in DL meets.

I honestly can't think of another career where you would want to join a company that essentially forbids you from taking opportunities to make more money in a line of work that's already known for not being particularly lucrative.

BTC is still better than every other group besides the NOP. But like you said NOP is small, they wouldn’t take most of BTCs athletes as they aren’t good enough or run the steeple. I’m sure NOP would take someone like Shelby but anyone else would be the worst runner on NOP or run the steeple which NOP doesn’t coach.

I'd join just for the bowerman girlZ

The NOP has drug accusations... Probably part of the reason why people would rather run for BTC. Nobody speaking out against them, including Kara who has run for both and would obviously out both of needed.

steve dildarian wrote:

Because they got a Nike contract and don't want to be coached by a cheater. And because they probably don't base their decision off of one meet.

Jerry and Alberto uses to coach together and use the same doctor. If Alberto is dirty, so is Jerry.

Just being real wrote:

steve dildarian wrote:

Because they got a Nike contract and don't want to be coached by a cheater. And because they probably don't base their decision off of one meet.

Jerry and Alberto uses to coach together and use the same doctor. If Alberto is dirty, so is Jerry.

Track “fans” care about doping allegations. Elite level athletes do not.

Just being real wrote:

steve dildarian wrote:

Because they got a Nike contract and don't want to be coached by a cheater. And because they probably don't base their decision off of one meet.

Jerry and Alberto uses to coach together and use the same doctor. If Alberto is dirty, so is Jerry.

Are you really so simple to think that they are the same person just because one of the doctors they use overlap? As if that is the only factor?

Just being real wrote:

steve dildarian wrote:

Because they got a Nike contract and don't want to be coached by a cheater. And because they probably don't base their decision off of one meet.

Jerry and Alberto uses to coach together and use the same doctor. If Alberto is dirty, so is Jerry.

Pretty sure if BTC was cheating Kara Goucher would have included them as evidence in taking down these programs but she only listed Alberto. No mention of Jerry, sorry!

steve dildarian wrote:

Just being real wrote:

Jerry and Alberto uses to coach together and use the same doctor. If Alberto is dirty, so is Jerry.

Are you really so simple to think that they are the same person just because one of the doctors they use overlap? As if that is the only factor?

Jerry and Alberto used to coach together. Rupp and Solinsky used to be partners.

Lenny Leonard wrote:

Just being real wrote:

Jerry and Alberto uses to coach together and use the same doctor. If Alberto is dirty, so is Jerry.

Track “fans” care about doping allegations. Elite level athletes do not.

Tell Des Linden that, dummy!

2+2 does not = 5 wrote:

steve dildarian wrote:

Are you really so simple to think that they are the same person just because one of the doctors they use overlap? As if that is the only factor?

Jerry and Alberto used to coach together. Rupp and Solinsky used to be partners.

I'm aware.

Did Jerry and Alberto both coach someone busted for doping? Did Jerry and Alberto both see how much exogenous testosterone would trigger a positive test? Did Jerry and Alberto both exceed doping limits on IVs? Did Jerry and Alberto both get found with syringes at training camp? Did Jerry and Alberto both ask an athlete to take meds prescribed to someone else?

steve dildarian wrote:

2+2 does not = 5 wrote:

Jerry and Alberto used to coach together. Rupp and Solinsky used to be partners.

I'm aware.

Did Jerry and Alberto both coach someone busted for doping? Did Jerry and Alberto both see how much exogenous testosterone would trigger a positive test? Did Jerry and Alberto both exceed doping limits on IVs? Did Jerry and Alberto both get found with syringes at training camp? Did Jerry and Alberto both ask an athlete to take meds prescribed to someone else?

Look up the suspicious test values of some of Jerry athletes. Look at how some of his runners go from nothing to break American records back to nothing in a matter of a few years. Look at Chris Solinsky progression, it makes mo Farah progression look like nothing.

Don't play dumb wrote:

steve dildarian wrote:

I'm aware.

Did Jerry and Alberto both coach someone busted for doping? Did Jerry and Alberto both see how much exogenous testosterone would trigger a positive test? Did Jerry and Alberto both exceed doping limits on IVs? Did Jerry and Alberto both get found with syringes at training camp? Did Jerry and Alberto both ask an athlete to take meds prescribed to someone else?

Look up the suspicious test values of some of Jerry athletes. Look at how some of his runners go from nothing to break American records back to nothing in a matter of a few years. Look at Chris Solinsky progression, it makes mo Farah progression look like nothing.

So you think Jerry's athletes' improvements are as suspicious as the actions by Salazar that I listed? Do you understand why others might not see those as comparable and would thus not want to be associated with the NOP?

steve dildarian wrote:

Don't play dumb wrote:

Look up the suspicious test values of some of Jerry athletes. Look at how some of his runners go from nothing to break American records back to nothing in a matter of a few years. Look at Chris Solinsky progression, it makes mo Farah progression look like nothing.

So you think Jerry's athletes' improvements are as suspicious as the actions by Salazar that I listed? Do you understand why others might not see those as comparable and would thus not want to be associated with the NOP?

Tell me this doesn't look suspicious:

2014 13:50.23 Heusden-Zolder (BEL) 19 JUL 2014

2013 13:23.62 Palo Alto, CA (USA) 28 APR 2013

2011 13:10.22 OP, Melbourne (AUS) 03 MAR 2011

2010 12:55.53 Olympiastadion, Stockholm (SWE) 06 AUG 2010

2009 13:18.41 Walnut, CA (USA) 17 APR 2009

2008 13:18.51 Heusden-Zolder (BEL) 20 JUL 2008

2007 13:12.24 Heusden-Zolder (BEL) 28 JUL 2007

2006 13:27.94 Eugene, OR (USA) 21 APR 2006

2005 13:37.55 Carson, CA (USA) 24 JUN 2005

2004 13:42.44 Eugene, OR (USA) 24

Vs this:

2017 13:00.70 Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 27 MAY 2017

2016 12:59.29 Olympic Stadium, London (GBR) 23 JUL 2016

2015 13:11.77 Pontaise, Lausanne (SUI) 09 JUL 2015

2014 13:23.42 Portland, OR (USA) 15 JUN 2014

2013 13:05.88 Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 01 JUN 2013

2012 12:56.98 Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 02 JUN 2012

2011 12:53.11 Stade Louis II, Monaco (MON) 22 JUL 2011

2010 12:57.94 Letzigrund, Zürich (SUI) 19 AUG 2010

2009 13:09.14 Crystal Palace, London (GBR) 24 JUL 2009

2008 13:08.11 Boudewijnstadion, Bruxelles (BEL) 05 SEP 2008

2007 13:07.00 Boudewijnstadion, Bruxelles (BEL) 14 SEP 2007

2006 13:09.40 Heusden-Zolder (BEL) 22 JUL 2006

2005 13:30.53 Solihull (GBR) 25 JUN 2005

2003 13:38.41 Crystal Palace, London (GBR) 08 AUG 2003

2001 13:56.31 Solihull (GBR) 23 JUN 2001

2000 14:05.72 Solihull (GBR) 19 AUG 2000

Which one looks like more normal progression?

So your answer is that you do think these are comparable reasons to be suspicious?

Coaching someone busted for doping

Seeing how much exogenous testosterone would trigger a positive test

Exceeding doping limits on IVs

Being found with syringes at training camp

Asking an athlete to take meds prescribed to someone else

vs.

The progression of a Footlocker and multiple-time NCAA champion

The NOP is lucky to have fans like you

OsjdbxskBB wrote:

Just being real wrote:

Jerry and Alberto uses to coach together and use the same doctor. If Alberto is dirty, so is Jerry.

Pretty sure if BTC was cheating Kara Goucher would have included them as evidence in taking down these programs but she only listed Alberto. No mention of Jerry, sorry!

Exactly. When I think “credibility” Kara Goucher is the exemplar that rushes to my mind as well. There was no vendetta against Salazar with Kara.

It all started when Kara caught wind of unscrupulous activities by the Nike Oregon Project from within the tightknit elite running community. Kara could not stand by while the evil Salazar ravaged the sport of running so she embarked to infiltrate the group earning Salazar’s trust while she gathered the hard evidence. The type of evidence that would eventually be the nail in Salazar’s (second) coffin.

However the evil Salazar is as sneaky as they come. He was keeping all the good dope for his little lab rat, Galen. Kara didn’t get any dope for herself making it very difficult to acquire any evidence so she kept training honestly and improving dramatically under the cruel,

oppressive tutelage of the evil Salazar.

It wasn’t until the twilight of our heroine’s career that she had amassed enough cold hard evidence to indict the evil Salazar for his unethical experimentation on poor Galen.

Despite the failure of the American justice system and WADA to punish the evil Salazar we can rest assured that Kara’s career was a rewarding and honest one in which she fought the temptations of performance enhancing substances at the height of her career before riding off into the sunset with her head held high and with total dignity.

- the end

2+2 does not = 5 wrote:

steve dildarian wrote:

Are you really so simple to think that they are the same person just because one of the doctors they use overlap? As if that is the only factor?

Jerry and Alberto used to coach together. Rupp and Solinsky used to be partners.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2tk3_OmsudM/TeeFEndcgKI/AAAAAAAABPs/SBmJpJPLatI/s1600/solrupp.jpg

**They used to wear the same jersey. That alias separated after Jerry and Alberto couldn’t stand being in the same room together anymore. It helped out Nike in the long run with bagging athletes though

nothing to see here.

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8297584