The Match: USA V. EUROPE DUAL MEET (Official Thread)

Sorry, didn't expand on Purrier other than her times. I don't think it is outrageous that she can do sub 4, just that from the looks of it she still is a bit off. I have seen more of Purrier than I have of Johnson, and if there is a North American athlete most likely to break 4 in 2020 I would put money on her. I never described her as a no hope. I still don't put much weight in that 4:16 road mile. Relative to other runners who have done it, and relative to Jenny (who looked pretty mortal in Zurich) that was strong.

As for Johnson, 4:11 to 4:03 is a big drop, and I forgot that her 4:03 was at Nationals. That plus her youth, I'd say she is definitely one to watch. However I still can't emphasize how big the gap is between 4:03 (even if run unevenly). Breakthroughs work in funny ways. You get people like Kate Grace who has bounced around 4:05-4:02 for 4 years straight in various fashion, you get people like Stafford who go 2017 4:03, 2018 4:05, 2019 3:59, and then you get Shelby Houlihan who ran 4:03 2016, 4:06 2017, and then boom. 3:57 2018. Wild.

tl;dr - agreed Purrier has a shot (she could break 15:00 tomorrow morning if she had the pacing tbh), but needs to find one more gear I think. Johnson is a talent and has a future, but we'll see how she goes. Sub 4 is damn hard, and many talented women have come close but never smoked the cigar, and that I stand by me saying some people on this board don't appreciate how hard it can be.

Arrogance wrote:

Sub 4 is damn hard, and many talented women have come close but never smoked the cigar, and that I stand by me saying some people on this board don't appreciate how hard it can be.

For those of you who weren't there, here's how hard it is: Simpson first ran sub 4 in 2009. She didn't run sub 4 again until 20014. That is five years!

Belcher apologizing saying that's not his style? Lol yeah right. I can't stand this guy. He's always been cocking af and he's not that good. Don't get to cocking bub you're on the c team

Glad you see where Elle is at. And don't forget she is doing this on 5K training!

Seriously, for Sinclaire Johnson, watch the USATF final again and see how with a smoother-paced race (not running 60.8 in lane 2 most of the last lap) she is certainly at 4:01 and more likely 4:00 fitness right now. We'll see how she fares in Doha, but she is the most explosive miler to emerge from the NCAA in many many years. Really reminds me of Jenny's breakout year going from 4:11 to 3:59. The main difference is that Jenny did it from the strength side whereas Johnson does it with her speed. Both have withering kicks.

I don't know if Dave coaches her directly or this is an assistant's work, but this might be OSU's greatest individual success story (even more than Thompson).

Brainy Smurf wrote:

And to be fair, it was Europes B team as well.

The Euros sent their big guns to most of the field events and the men's 110h, 200 and 800. The USA sent far less.

It was comical seeing Guliyev spank the entire USA contingent by more than half a second! One of them didn't even run sub 21.

YMMV wrote:

Glad you see where Elle is at. And don't forget she is doing this on 5K training!

Seriously, for Sinclaire Johnson, watch the USATF final again and see how with a smoother-paced race (not running 60.8 in lane 2 most of the last lap) she is certainly at 4:01 and more likely 4:00 fitness right now. We'll see how she fares in Doha, but she is the most explosive miler to emerge from the NCAA in many many years. Really reminds me of Jenny's breakout year going from 4:11 to 3:59. The main difference is that Jenny did it from the strength side whereas Johnson does it with her speed. Both have withering kicks.

At the end of the day, I think the difference between 1500 and 5000 is overstated I think. Look at Hassan and Konstanze - 1/2 in the 1500m DL final blowing by Dibaba in the 1500 and a week later smashes 1/3 in the 5000 both smashing 5km specialist Obiri. Look at Houlihan, she ran 3:57 and 14:36 last year. Or in the context of this thread, Stafford - 3:59/14:44 this year. With the women at the top, it when they are in blinding 1500m form they are also going to be in fantastic 5000m form and vice versa. I'd love to see Elle get into a Monaco or a Rabat style race next year.

I'll keep an on Sinclaire. Again, for a European - how many more years of eligibility she got/what are the chances she actually uses it all?

Arrogance wrote:

I'd love to see Elle get into a Monaco or a Rabat style race next year.

I'd love to see Elle get into a fast race without Simpson to set the pace for her.

Arrogance wrote:

I'll keep an on Sinclaire. Again, for a European - how many more years of eligibility she got/what are the chances she actually uses it all?

Sinclaire turned pro. As I recall, she's still working with her college coach:

Just a coincidence wrote:

Arrogance wrote:

I'd love to see Elle get into a Monaco or a Rabat style race next year.

I'd love to see Elle get into a fast race without Simpson to set the pace for her.

She ran her PB in such a race, namely DL Rome which was admittedly rather early in the season but as fast as she could have wished for.

Jo72 wrote:

She ran her PB in such a race, namely DL Rome which was admittedly rather early in the season but as fast as she could have wished for.

??? Simpson ran the Rome DL. From the video, Purrier looks to be treating Simpson as a pace-setter for most of the race. Comparing the split times in the "Race Analysis," confirms this. From 300-1400 meters, Purrier was always about .1-.3 seconds behind Simpson. In the end, when Simpson kicked, Purrier could not follow. She finished 1.2 seconds behind Simpson.

There are no splits for the 5th Avenue Mile, but looking at the video, Purrier again looks to be following Simpson, until Simpson pulls ahead in the last 100 meters or so.

sorry, I missed the point. I thought it was about getting into a fast DL style race and didn't know that it was about the presence of Simpson and I still don't quite understand why this should be important. Do you think she would have run faster or slower in Rome without Simpson in the race?

wineturtle wrote:

Brainy Smurf wrote:

I agree. Thought it was a pretty cool format. Straight up dual meet. And to be fair, it was Europes B team as well.

I'm a fan of watching track meets. I enjoy Jr HS dual meets as well as all levels of IAAF meets. The idea that the IAA F gathered these athlete to compete in this format was and is great.

I was entertained for 6 hours.

I'm sorry so many folks get no joy from watching T&F unless it's populated by potential WR breakers.

I loved it- I kept watching at the top of the screen as it said how many points Europe needed to win.

It was fun and interesting and it was the team format a lot of people on this message board say could make track more popular.

Agreed, Purier and Johnson look legit. Johnson over 1500m is better than Purier, but both can break 4:00. Johnson looks great over 1500m, but I think Purier is more of a 5k runner ( maybe a great one)!

As for Efraimson, she had a tough year, but ran back to back 4:04's (3rd and 4th race of the year), 3 days apart. Then got hurt. We'll see next year.