Ritz dilemma - how to run Chicago?

He has gone 1 hour flat for the half and sub 13 for 5000. I have always thought his problem with the marathon is not doing enough mileage. Because he does most of his easy mileage sub 6 minute pace, his body won't allow him to do those 140-150+ mile weeks. If I was him, I would heavily focus on building up mileage. No faster than 7:30 pace for easy runs, get some super long runs in. Those cramping issues will go away if you build up the strength in your legs.

It’d be best to go out in 63:30 and try to pick off runners.

Hills FTW wrote:

He has gone 1 hour flat for the half and sub 13 for 5000. I have always thought his problem with the marathon is not doing enough mileage. Because he does most of his easy mileage sub 6 minute pace, his body won't allow him to do those 140-150+ mile weeks. If I was him, I would heavily focus on building up mileage. No faster than 7:30 pace for easy runs, get some super long runs in. Those cramping issues will go away if you build up the strength in your legs.

I hope the several time Olympian consults with the random dude on the internet before planning his next big training cycle.

His best situation would be to get a solid 2:10–2:11 and build on that for the trials. Going after a 2:07 type performance is way too risky. Stay healthy and build toward the trials.

Hills FTW wrote:

He has gone 1 hour flat for the half and sub 13 for 5000. I have always thought his problem with the marathon is not doing enough mileage. Because he does most of his easy mileage sub 6 minute pace, his body won't allow him to do those 140-150+ mile weeks. If I was him, I would heavily focus on building up mileage. No faster than 7:30 pace for easy runs, get some super long runs in. Those cramping issues will go away if you build up the strength in your legs.

Brilliant Post

Ritz has been a top level runner since he was in HS over 20 years ago. He has worked with some of the top coaches in the world Wetnore Hudson Salazar and Hanson. He should start listening to anonymous people on the message boards. That is what he is missing.

You are red hot wrote:

Hills FTW wrote:

He has gone 1 hour flat for the half and sub 13 for 5000. I have always thought his problem with the marathon is not doing enough mileage. Because he does most of his easy mileage sub 6 minute pace, his body won't allow him to do those 140-150+ mile weeks. If I was him, I would heavily focus on building up mileage. No faster than 7:30 pace for easy runs, get some super long runs in. Those cramping issues will go away if you build up the strength in your legs.

Brilliant Post

Ritz has been a top level runner since he was in HS over 20 years ago. He has worked with some of the top coaches in the world Wetnore Hudson Salazar and Hanson. He should start listening to anonymous people on the message boards. That is what he is missing.

Yes, he has had a successful career. He has been at the top for over two decades now. He has worked with some of the top coaches. However, he hasn't figured out the marathon. His body is fragile, which makes it a foolish move to do his easy runs like he does. And always suffers from cramps if he gets to the starting line of a marathon healthy. The body needs mileage, if you're going run the marathon at the elite level. Look at Ryan Hall, there's a reason why his legit marathon PB is almost 2 minutes faster than Ritz. He has always suffered from cramps in the marathon. This is because he hasn't adjusted his training to the marathon.

Ryan Hall marathons:

22 APR 2007 London Marathon, London GBRGBR GL F 7. 2:08:24

03 NOV 2007 New York U.S. Olympic Team Trials, New York, NY 1. 2:09:02

13 APR 2008 London Marathon, London GBRGBR GL F 5. 2:06:17

24 AUG 2008 Beijing Olympic Games, National Stadium, Beijing 10. 2:12:33

20 APR 2009 Boston Marathon, Boston, MA USAUSA A F 3. 2:09:40

01 NOV 2009 New York City Marathon, New York, NY 4. 2:10:36

19 APR 2010 Boston Marathon, Boston, MA USAUSA A F 4. 2:08:41

18 APR 2011 Boston Marathon, Boston, MA USAUSA A F 4. 2:04:58

09 OCT 2011 Chicago Marathon, Chicago, IL 5. 2:08:04

14 JAN 2012 Houston U.S. Olympic Team Trials Marathon, Houston, TX USAUSA B F 2. 2:09:30

12 AUG 2012 London Olympic Games, Olympic Stadium, London GBRGBR OW F DNF

21 APR 2014 Boston Marathon, Boston, MA USAUSA GL F 19. 2:17:50

Ritz marathons:

05 NOV 2006 New York City Marathon, New York, NY USAUSA GL F 11. 2:14:01

03 NOV 2007 New York U.S. Olympic Team Trials, New York, NY USAUSA C F 2. 2:11:07

24 AUG 2008 Beijing Olympic Games, National Stadium, Beijing CHNCHN OW F 9. 2:11:59

26 APR 2009 London Marathon, London GBRGBR GL F 11. 2:10:00

07 NOV 2010 New York City Marathon, New York, NY USAUSA GL F 8. 2:12:33

14 JAN 2012 Houston U.S. Olympic Team Trials Marathon, Houston, TX USAUSA B F 4. 2:09:55

07 OCT 2012 Chicago Marathon, Chicago, IL USAUSA GL F 9. 2:07:47

Chicago Marathon, Chicago, IL USAUSA GL F 5. 2:09:45

Boston Marathon, Boston, MA USAUSA GL F 7. 2:11:20

13 FEB 2016 Los Angeles U.S. Olympic Marathon Team Trials, Los Angeles, CA USAUSA F F DNF

06 NOV 2016 New York Marathon, New York, NY USAUSA GL F DNF

B.A.A. Boston Marathon, Boston, MA USAUSA GL F 19. 2:16:19

Which one has had the better marathon career?

Which one has went sub 2:10 more?

Which one has more DNF and DNS in their marathon career?

Look at the differences in their training.

Doesn’t the Hanson’s training model call for lower mileage?

Perhaps he can’t handle the mileage so to suggest he needs to do high mileage during the twilight of his stellar career is just silly.

Hamsons training wrote:

Doesn’t the Hanson’s training model call for lower mileage?

Perhaps he can’t handle the mileage so to suggest he needs to do high mileage during the twilight of his stellar career is just silly.

He can't handle high mileage because he does his easy mileage too fast. If he would slow down, I guarantee it he could handle it without breaking down.

Now that the Olympic trials are a Gold event, he should save himself a bit.

Hills FTW wrote:

He has gone 1 hour flat for the half and sub 13 for 5000. I have always thought his problem with the marathon is not doing enough mileage. Because he does most of his easy mileage sub 6 minute pace, his body won't allow him to do those 140-150+ mile weeks. If I was him, I would heavily focus on building up mileage. No faster than 7:30 pace for easy runs, get some super long runs in. Those cramping issues will go away if you build up the strength in your legs.

If you followed his training much, he does a TON of cross training. I would agree with you to an extent but I imagine down the road at some point they have already come up with the novel "run more mileage" strategy. 7:30 pace would be an absolute joke for him. He has no reason to ever run that slow except on warm ups. 7:30 pace isn't to him what it is to me and you.

Hamsons training wrote:

Doesn’t the Hanson’s training model call for lower mileage?

Perhaps he can’t handle the mileage so to suggest he needs to do high mileage during the twilight of his stellar career is just silly.

No, maybe in that Hansons marathon method book, but those guys run a LOT of mileage. The big difference, from what I'm told is that they don't typically go over 16 miles for a long run very often.

It doesn't matter anyway since Dathan doesn't do that program. He does his own program with help from Hansons for advising. He does some of the key workouts with them but certainly not every bit of the training plan.

restUP wrote:

Now that the Olympic trials are a Gold event, he should save himself a bit.

I hate that I've posted three times in a row, but he needs to get a solid marathon under his belt before the trials. He has almost 5 months between races. That is plenty of time. Also, don't forget that he gets a lovely paycheck to show up for these big races.

To someone as fragile as Ritz is, taking his easy days as easy as 7:30 or even easier, it isn't a joke. It is what he needs to do to make it to the start line healthy and be able to put in more mileage. A lot of the Japanese are notorious for taking their easy days, super easy. Take the former Japanese national record holder at the marathon, Takayuki Inubushi. Doing his easy days at a 8 minute mile pace. His marathon PB, almost a minute faster than Ritz

Nothing beats an even pace. Based on his recent 47:19, 2:11 pace seems about right. After his struggles the last few years. a 2:11 would give him some confidence,

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Nothing beats an even pace. Based on his recent 47:19, 2:11 pace seems about right. After his struggles the last few years. a 2:11 would give him some confidence,

Whoops! I kind of repeated what someone else posted.

7:30 pace would be excruciatingly slow for someone at Ritz's level. In my prime, I would have raced about 30 seconds a mile slower than him and would have hated 8:00 pace. Is there any reason at all to think running 6:30 pace, instead, would increase the risk of injury?

I think you missed about 7 epic Ryan Hall marathon performances!

SDSU Aztec wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Nothing beats an even pace. Based on his recent 47:19, 2:11 pace seems about right. After his struggles the last few years. a 2:11 would give him some confidence,

Whoops! I kind of repeated what someone else posted.

7:30 pace would be excruciatingly slow for someone at Ritz's level. In my prime, I would have raced about 30 seconds a mile slower than him and would have hated 8:00 pace. Is there any reason at all to think running 6:30 pace, instead, would increase the risk of injury?

Your marathon PB? Americans are good at track stuff(mainly mile and shorter). But are horrible at the marathon, because the training philosophy/attitude that works for the mile, doesn't work for the marathon. There's a reason why Japan has almost a hundred sub 2:10 marathoners and the US only has only 13. Despite the US having almost triple the population of Japan. But you can turn this around and point out how many more sub 4 minute milers/1500 equivalent the US has to Japan. But this just shows the attitude needs to change if you want to be good at the marathon. The US runners to do this i.e. Scott Fauble and Ryan Hall, doing their easy days 7 minute pace or slower. Show what one needs to do to excel at the marathon.

Idiot. Galen Rupp does easy runs at 5:30 pace. 6:30 is slow, not fast.