Interesting. This makes sense. So, you're saying that easy pace should be about 25-30 % of your 5k race pace, as opposed to the standard thinking that it's 90 seconds slower, regardless of how fast or slow you are? I'd like other's thoughts on this.
Interesting. This makes sense. So, you're saying that easy pace should be about 25-30 % of your 5k race pace, as opposed to the standard thinking that it's 90 seconds slower, regardless of how fast or slow you are? I'd like other's thoughts on this.
Coach TMW wrote:
Alberto Salazar says that easy days should be between 1:30 and 1:40 slower than your 5k race pace.
Quote from Salazar at a running clinic:
"When Mo (Farah) first started training with me, I got all his running logs from his Garmin. And looked at what pace he ran on all his easy runs. And I was shocked to see that he was running seven minute pace. And I said, "Mo, that is way too slow. My high school team ran faster than that. I think that if you train yourself to run harder on your easy days, but you have to do it gradually."
Salazar runs into problems when he uses a time variance instead of a percentage of that 5,000 meter race pace. Running 1:40 slower is much different for an athlete running 12:55 for 5000 meters, than it is for a high school girl running 18:45. When you add things up, the world class 12:55 runner is going 40% slower than 5000 meter race pace when he follows Alberto's formula. And the high school girl is going just 28% slower than her 5000 meter race pace, if she follows that time formula. So, the bottom line is that you can't go by time. You must go by percentage of time.
Salazar = drugs = Not wise training advise for clean athletes.
Coach TMW wrote:
Alberto Salazar says that easy days should be between 1:30 and 1:40 slower than your 5k race pace.
Quote from Salazar at a running clinic:
"When Mo (Farah) first started training with me, I got all his running logs from his Garmin. And looked at what pace he ran on all his easy runs. And I was shocked to see that he was running seven minute pace. And I said, "Mo, that is way too slow. My high school team ran faster than that. I think that if you train yourself to run harder on your easy days, but you have to do it gradually."
Salazar runs into problems when he uses a time variance instead of a percentage of that 5,000 meter race pace. Running 1:40 slower is much different for an athlete running 12:55 for 5000 meters, than it is for a high school girl running 18:45. When you add things up, the world class 12:55 runner is going 40% slower than 5000 meter race pace when he follows Alberto's formula. And the high school girl is going just 28% slower than her 5000 meter race pace, if she follows that time formula. So, the bottom line is that you can't go by time. You must go by percentage of time.
That explains why my slower runners are having a hard time with easy pace. Thanks for clarifying that for all of us. You are 100% right on this.
ahhhhh wrote:
Interesting. This makes sense. So, you're saying that easy pace should be about 25-30 % of your 5k race pace, as opposed to the standard thinking that it's 90 seconds slower, regardless of how fast or slow you are? I'd like other's thoughts on this.
No. Alberto has the elite runners running the right pace for easy runs, which is 35-40% slower than 5k race pace. The 18:45 high school girl needs to slow down. She is running too fast when you use Alberto math. She needs to be slower than 8 minute mile pace for her easy runs. Good stuff!!!
Daniel88 wrote:
What’s up with all these elite high schoolers taking their easy runs WAYYY to fast?
This girl is just an example. She runs 4:55/10:38 and does a 5 mile tempo at 6:05 pace. The next day, she does an “easy” 7 mile run at 6:40 pace? None of her runs that week were above 7 minute pace.
Not to call her out or anything, there are many other athletes (mostly girls) that are running oddly fast on supposedly “easy” runs.
My question is, can they really afford this type of training? I have PR’s faster than her and I would never dream of going faster than 7:15 pace for an easy run...is this why American high schoolers get burnt out so quickly?
Discuss.
https://www.milesplit.com/articles/265396-preseason-training-blog-jamestowns-meghan-ford
Seems like she listened to us. This week, her easy runs were considerably slower than last week, and she mentioned on Sunday's run:
One of my goals this season is to actually run my easy runs and long runs slower, so today I ditched my watch and ran based on effort. Not keeping track of time really helped me listen to my body instead of my watch, so I'm definitely going to try this again.
Great to see how LR can help these young HSers improve their training and help them have a long-term career with consistent improvements!
https://www.milesplit.com/articles/265396?page=2Belgium Waffles wrote:
ahhhhh wrote:
Interesting. This makes sense. So, you're saying that easy pace should be about 25-30 % of your 5k race pace, as opposed to the standard thinking that it's 90 seconds slower, regardless of how fast or slow you are? I'd like other's thoughts on this.
No. Alberto has the elite runners running the right pace for easy runs, which is 35-40% slower than 5k race pace. The 18:45 high school girl needs to slow down. She is running too fast when you use Alberto math. She needs to be slower than 8 minute mile pace for her easy runs. Good stuff!!!
I worded it a little confusing. I meant... easy pace(everyday pace) should be 25-30% slower than 5k pace, and recovery pace (after hard workout or race) should be 40% slower. Thanks for clarifying
zxcvxzvc wrote:
6:45-7 is easy pace for runners around the 4:40-4:50 level, though you should probably take it a lot easier when your legs are feeling shot after a hard workout day, and adjust for weather in the summer.
What the hell are you on??
There's no way that I could survive doing easy runs at 6:45 pace, or even 7:00 pace. I say this as someone with a 4:47 PR. I take my easy days easy, and the pace can vary; for example, in the summer, when I'm running "high" mileage (for me at least) and not doing more than 2 moderately taxing tempos a week, my easy days are often in the 7:30 - 7:55 range. In season, or after recovering from a harder run/intervals, the pace could slow from 8:05 to 8:30 pace.
I've been running about 45 mpw and I'm somewhat injury prone, so I suppose if I ran 30 mpw and did not vary the pace of my runs, I could probably go 6:45 pace every day, but it wouldn't be the optimal way to train.
hmmmmmmm wrote:
Look at the next week
Does she read letsrun?
https://www.milesplit.com/articles/265396?page=2
She sure does. Girl is a hype machine. Get that clout!
I've learned to take that from the Kenyans and reading about the shuffle on this board. I do some dynamic stretching when I start, but I shuffle and the first mile is usually slow. I know when I go out for my 'thon to go out at MP +0:30 for the first 2-2.5 miles, then run into the goal pace after getting warmed up. My cooldown is EZ pace and some static stretching.
Good stuff!
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
While we are at it, this is even more crazy:
https://www.milesplit.com/articles/265486-preseason-training-blog-lansing-catholics-jaden-theisFirst run after 2 months of being injured and not on treadmill/alter G, and she runs 6:12 (!) pace. First ,she should be running very slow, 8-10 min miles after injury and her first test run on the roads. And second, she also called it "easy/moderate" - as a 5:02/10:44 runner. That's faster than Daniel's tempo pace or Tinman Tempo pace for a 5:02/10:44 runner!!
On her second run that week, she ran again 2 miles at 6:11 pace.
In the whole week she ran a total of 5.45 miles at 6:11 average, in her first week of road running after injury. How about running 10-15 miles at 8 min pace? Then 20-30 miles next week at 8 min pace?
I'm wondering if these HS kids actually get coached during their off-season/summer, or just train based on feeling because that would explain many things. No wonder they are both injured are all time if they get coached like that or have to write their own training..
Just saw on her newest training blog that she's injured again. Not sure what's up with her trainers or her PT? In the first week's blog she mentioned that even before her Femoral stress fracture she didn't do a lot of miles and instead cross trained a lot to keep her mileage lower. How the heck did she get a femoral neck stress fracture?? Not a good sign that the knee is now swollen and painful.
Daniel88 wrote:
What’s up with all these elite high schoolers taking their easy runs WAYYY to fast?
This girl is just an example. She runs 4:55/10:38 and does a 5 mile tempo at 6:05 pace. The next day, she does an “easy” 7 mile run at 6:40 pace? None of her runs that week were above 7 minute pace.
Not to call her out or anything, there are many other athletes (mostly girls) that are running oddly fast on supposedly “easy” runs.
My question is, can they really afford this type of training? I have PR’s faster than her and I would never dream of going faster than 7:15 pace for an easy run...is this why American high schoolers get burnt out so quickly?
Discuss.
https://www.milesplit.com/articles/265396-preseason-training-blog-jamestowns-meghan-ford
Has anyone even HEARD anything from ford these last couple months?? All I can find is a DNF-it looks like her training might be catching up to her.
She has however apparently committed to Furman-maybe a change in coaching might be what saves her-she has a ton of potential and it would be a shame if she only can benefit from it in high school
You are really ressurecting an old thread here.
You can do a quick search on Athletic.net and see her results for the last couple months, she is doing well.
As for her training I know nothing about that, but since this thread went on the board in August of 2019 she won her State CC title, finished 1st at Nike Heartland, and 21st at NXN, that is a good year. In regards to her training last season my opinion would be that it worked out just fine for her considering the success that she had.
She is a strong athlete with great talent, highly competitive and more than both of those a great person. I hope nothing but the best for her in her college career and beyond.
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