High schoolers SUCK at easy runs

I'd love to hear the thoughts of some of the coaches from power programs in high school. Obviously, if they are having success year in, year out, they are doing a lot of things right. When doing a couple workouts a week, along with a race, what are their thoughts about easy pace? Hopefully a couple national level coaches will join the chat.

runthecountry wrote:

I agree that those paces are too fast, but definitely not universal. The fastest girl at my high school (around 19:00 for 5k) would run her easy runs with the rest of the girls, probably 9-10 minute pace. Not sure if it helped her or not, compared to faster paced easy runs.

That's just as bad as running too fast. Girls can be very supportive of their team mates and want to keep up the team spirit, but if one girl is just so much faster than all the others you have to separate them, even if it makes them feel sad. She is basically just wasting carbs and burning calories with zero gains in fitness at 10 min/mile pace as a 19 flat girl. That pace might be fine after a hard race if she is feeling super bad, but for her daily easy runs it's useless.

If there really is a girl in a team that's 2-3 min faster than the rest, you should strongly consider letting her run with boys at equal level. Yes they are immature at that age and she would feel bad for her team mates, but in the end you want to help her become a better runner and not just be a good friend to her teammates while sacrificing her own progression and performances.

Yes, that is absolutely a healthy progression. Many girls that have been running before high school will be slightly slower as sophomores or juniors versus freshman. It's called puberty. It's normal to take a slight step back in some events. Keep in mind she was 6th at Footlocker as a junior. I would say that's excellent progression. Especially for someone that doesn't have a a lot of natural speed like her.

It's also not a surprise she ran a little bit faster when her older sister was still on the team. Now she doesn't have another girl on the team to push her.

I don't know why you think you suddenly have it all figured out after having no clue for many years.

You are confused because you have a reading comprehension problem. I was responding to initial posts that said the girl was running 6:40 pace on her "easy" day. That is too fast. I was responding to you when you said "most high schoolers probably run a little too fast" which isn't true. I would say most teams have one or two kids that run too fast on their easy days (like mine does) but I would say most High School coaches have to spend their time trying to speed up most of the team because they are dragging. Having a team at NXN is not "most" high schoolers because "most" high schoolers don't go to NXN.

The harder the workouts, the easier the easy days need to be. If a runner has 3 big/intensive workouts a week, they need a couple of their easy runs to be more of a slow recovery run. If not having many workouts, easy pace can be faster. Everyone is different with how they can recover from hard workouts. Problem is, people get locked into the "pace" they are supposed to run as opposed to making sure they recover so they can excel at their next workout. They end up being in a constant state of fatigue.

Oops. Yeah that was a typo lol... a lot of typos actually. It should read "My point is: I DON'T believe moderately-fast 'easy' days are the #1 best approach ... my point IS simply that this type of training DOESN'T ALWAYS absolutely destroy high school runners. (For some runners, these faster 'easy' runs *could* even help mentally since running slow is boring for some kids... at least that's how it was/still is for me).

sit and kick wrote:

I thought for a mid distance runner [eg 1500, 3000], running a lot of miles at/about 8k pace is actually ~ideal

its not like they are training for distance races [5k+]

1500 and 3000 are distance races especially for underdeveloped high schoolers

c7runner7 wrote:

now I'm confused wrote:

"my point is that moderately-fast easy days are the absolutely best approach... just that it doesn't absolutely destroy them"

So, you think it is the best approach?

Oops. Yeah that was a typo lol... a lot of typos actually. It should read "My point is: I DON'T believe moderately-fast 'easy' days are the #1 best approach ... my point IS simply that this type of training DOESN'T ALWAYS absolutely destroy high school runners. (For some runners, these faster 'easy' runs *could* even help mentally since running slow is boring for some kids... at least that's how it was/still is for me).

Thanks. I thought that's what you meant, but wanted to confirm.

The whole theme of this thread is that High school athletes run too fast on their easy runs. I thought it was assumed we're talking about the faster, elite runners since no one is posting the training of a 26:00 5k girl. So when I said, "most" it was in reference to the fast, elite runners this thread was referring too.

So, you're right... 'most' high school athletes probably do run too slow... or walk... or hide in the shade... or run to a teammate's house and hang out. So I guess I should've clarified 'most' by saying "In reality, yes, a lot (or 'most') of the athletes this thread is referring too probably run too fast on their easy runs". Lastly, it's interesting you chose that statement of my post to pick apart... because that wasn't the point of my post. The point was: Even though some elite runners may run too fast on their easy runs, that doesn't mean they have a 100% chance of burning out and sucking in the future...there are other factors, and these 'too fast' easy runs may not be as bad as people are making them out to be.

OK now I think we are on the same page. Yes some elite HS teams probably run all of their easy days too fast, not most teams.

I do agree that not EVERY person that runs their easy runs too fast is going to die or burnout. Some make it through and are good because of it. I honestly don't think that the initial girl is running all of her easy runs at or around 6:40 pace. I would guess that's showing off for the story.

Also water is wet, the sky is blue wrote:

Every practice turned into a race when I was in high school.

For boys often yes, but not for girls

I have been coaching high school girls for a while now.

Some are fit and strong enough to handle mileage at a fast pace with few easy days. Most definitely can not.

Some are injury prone and you need to take a more careful “engineered” approach to their training.

Some don’t need as much volume as others to be successful.

Some who may be very similar physiologically as another teammate but they are not getting their sleep or eating properly. They require more easy days.

It takes a while to learn what works best for each athlete. I have an XC team of 40 that I currently coach and none are exactly the same.

I am a high school boy, and sadly, must admit I take my recovery, or 'easy runs' way too fast. I started last years cross country season at 12 years old, and ran my first race in 26:01. However, by the end of the year, I had run a 20:03. My approach was based off of an autobiography about HIcham El Guerrouj I randomly came across on the internet, stating that he runs every workout 100%. I took those words quite literally, and in turn ran as the slowest guy on the team, trying to keep up with the varsity group the entire recovery workout. Based off of my times , I would say this is a good strategy so far, as I now have a mile PR of 5:45, and a 2 mile PR of 12:24. In a recent cross country workout, I ran with the varsity group at an average 7:15 pace for 6.35 miles, still living up to those words I had read on El Guerrouj's site that one day.

The point is: some people just train differently than others, and that is OK, Eliud Kipchoge, as well as other runners might have a certain view on the pace easy runs should be run, and I respect that. I still like to run in the way of El Guerrouj and go decently hard every workout.

It's cool to pick on teenage girls.

(While I don't disagree with your premise.... Jeeeez, you are really calling out a teenage girl.)

Get a life.

*stipe wrote:

It's cool to pick on teenage girls.

(While I don't disagree with your premise.... Jeeeez, you are really calling out a teenage girl.)

Get a life.

Why do you think in gender terms? OP was calling at high schoolers, not girls. And how dare you assume their gender identity.

Maybe it was different when most of you were in High School, but it’s very clear to me which of you are actually coaching HS in 2019 (seems like none of you)

In 2019, if an athlete has an extremely strong work ethic such that they overtrain themselves with 60+ mile weeks (which isn’t overtraining in the slightest actually) and too fast of paces, that athlete is 1 in 1000. The other 999 need to be motivated to do anything at all.

Oh, I may have tried to get them to go faster if I was the coach, but I was just a guy on the team at that time (I did coach later, but mainly the guys team). At the same time, the group dynamics can vary so much with each team that it is difficult to really say one way or the other will always work. In this case, all the girls liked to run their easy days really slow - and the rest of the team really made great strides throughout that season. I think the second girl dropped from 21:30 at the beginning of the year to 19:45 at the end of the year, and most of the others dropped about a minute. And socially, the team dynamic worked out well enough that the coach decided not to mess with the easy runs and risk dividing the team, as long as the hard workouts and races went well.

any experts out there? wrote:

I'd love to hear the thoughts of some of the coaches from power programs in high school. Obviously, if they are having success year in, year out, they are doing a lot of things right. When doing a couple workouts a week, along with a race, what are their thoughts about easy pace? Hopefully a couple national level coaches will join the chat.

I’m far from an expert, but have coached a few sub 4:55/10:40 girls. They maxed out their easy runs at about 7:45 pace by the end of their senior year, but did most of them right around 8 minute pace. As freshmen, they were significantly slower than that on easy days.

I almost always err on the side of slower easy runs and hold kids back frequently. I’d rather have a slightly undertrained kid that runs for 4 years happy, healthy, and hungry for more than an injured kid.

Easy runs FTW!