High schoolers SUCK at easy runs

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hauwei wrote:

If this thread takes off, within two pages this thread will see posts mentioning Chris Solinsky, Tinman, and Galen Rupp. I guarantee it.

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LateRunnerPhil wrote:

While we are at it, this is even more crazy:

https://www.milesplit.com/articles/265486-preseason-training-blog-lansing-catholics-jaden-theis

First run after 2 months of being injured and not on treadmill/alter G, and she runs 6:12 (!) pace. First ,she should be running very slow, 8-10 min miles after injury and her first test run on the roads. And second, she also called it "easy/moderate" - as a 5:02/10:44 runner. That's faster than Daniel's tempo pace or Tinman Tempo pace for a 5:02/10:44 runner!!

On her second run that week, she ran again 2 miles at 6:11 pace.

In the whole week she ran a total of 5.45 miles at 6:11 average, in her first week of road running after injury. How about running 10-15 miles at 8 min pace? Then 20-30 miles next week at 8 min pace?

I'm wondering if these HS kids actually get coached during their off-season/summer, or just train based on feeling because that would explain many things. No wonder they are both injured are all time if they get coached like that or have to write their own training..

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sit and kick wrote:

I thought for a mid distance runner [eg 1500, 3000], running a lot of miles at/about 8k pace is actually ~ideal

its not like they are training for distance races [5k+]

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sit and kick wrote:

eg, if you're going to have limited mileage [which it sounds like they are...], might as well make it count

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c7runner7 wrote:

These threads are annoying because very few people ever take other factors into consideration... mainly the mileage component.

Most people on here compare high schoolers to top college or elite runners who run 80-140 miles per week (usually at altitude). A lot of these high schoolers, especially the girls are running maybe 40-50 miles a week or less (the higher mileage distance programs seem to run their distance days pretty easy).
If you’re running 40 miles a week, you can have your ‘easy’ days on the quicker side. Also, usually a high schoolers workout volume is less. Maybe 5-6k of interval volume vs 8-15k for an elite (depending on the event they train for). So the High Schoolers fatigue from a workout is going to be different, plus they tend to bounce back from workouts faster. It’s funny because most people critique the ‘fast’ Kid’s training.... doesn’t that seem ironic?

The realty is- yes, most high schoolers probably run a little too fast on their normal distance days . And as the up the mileage in college, they will need to make a change. But people act like these kids are going to spontaneously explode if they run another easy run sub-7 pace.

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LateRunnerPhil wrote:

While we are at it, this is even more crazy:

https://www.milesplit.com/articles/265486-preseason-training-blog-lansing-catholics-jaden-theis

First run after 2 months of being injured and not on treadmill/alter G, and she runs 6:12 (!) pace. First ,she should be running very slow, 8-10 min miles after injury and her first test run on the roads. And second, she also called it "easy/moderate" - as a 5:02/10:44 runner. That's faster than Daniel's tempo pace or Tinman Tempo pace for a 5:02/10:44 runner!!

On her second run that week, she ran again 2 miles at 6:11 pace.

In the whole week she ran a total of 5.45 miles at 6:11 average, in her first week of road running after injury. How about running 10-15 miles at 8 min pace? Then 20-30 miles next week at 8 min pace?

I'm wondering if these HS kids actually get coached during their off-season/summer, or just train based on feeling because that would explain many things. No wonder they are both injured are all time if they get coached like that or have to write their own training..

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Coachy Coach wrote:

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c7runner7 wrote:

These threads are annoying because very few people ever take other factors into consideration... mainly the mileage component.

Most people on here compare high schoolers to top college or elite runners who run 80-140 miles per week (usually at altitude). A lot of these high schoolers, especially the girls are running maybe 40-50 miles a week or less (the higher mileage distance programs seem to run their distance days pretty easy).
If you’re running 40 miles a week, you can have your ‘easy’ days on the quicker side. Also, usually a high schoolers workout volume is less. Maybe 5-6k of interval volume vs 8-15k for an elite (depending on the event they train for). So the High Schoolers fatigue from a workout is going to be different, plus they tend to bounce back from workouts faster. It’s funny because most people critique the ‘fast’ Kid’s training.... doesn’t that seem ironic?

The realty is- yes, most high schoolers probably run a little too fast on their normal distance days . And as the up the mileage in college, they will need to make a change. But people act like these kids are going to spontaneously explode if they run another easy run sub-7 pace.

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Have you ever coaches HS? Have you been in HS before? Most doing it too hard? Nope most are not. Beyond that there isn't a girl in the country that should be running their "easy" runs at 6:40 pace. Ever heard of the hard/easy approach?

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c7runner7 wrote:

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Coachy Coach wrote:

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c7runner7 wrote:

These threads are annoying because very few people ever take other factors into consideration... mainly the mileage component.

Most people on here compare high schoolers to top college or elite runners who run 80-140 miles per week (usually at altitude). A lot of these high schoolers, especially the girls are running maybe 40-50 miles a week or less (the higher mileage distance programs seem to run their distance days pretty easy).
If you’re running 40 miles a week, you can have your ‘easy’ days on the quicker side. Also, usually a high schoolers workout volume is less. Maybe 5-6k of interval volume vs 8-15k for an elite (depending on the event they train for). So the High Schoolers fatigue from a workout is going to be different, plus they tend to bounce back from workouts faster. It’s funny because most people critique the ‘fast’ Kid’s training.... doesn’t that seem ironic?

The realty is- yes, most high schoolers probably run a little too fast on their normal distance days . And as the up the mileage in college, they will need to make a change. But people act like these kids are going to spontaneously explode if they run another easy run sub-7 pace.

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Have you ever coaches HS? Have you been in HS before? Most doing it too hard? Nope most are not. Beyond that there isn't a girl in the country that should be running their "easy" runs at 6:40 pace. Ever heard of the hard/easy approach?

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I’m confused.. you said most kids aren’t running too hard but then said they shouldn’t be running 6:40 pace (indicting that pace is too hard).
But yes, I’ve been in high school. Our team was top 10 at NXN... I qualified for NXN as an Individual one year and Footlocker Champs another year. I Also have coached high school (now coach a different level). And implement hard and easy days like every other competent coach. *I also personally know several national caliber girls that run 6:40 pace on easy days (I don’t coach them). My point is that moderately-fast ‘easy’ days are the absolute best approach... just that it doesn’t absolutely destroy the athletes.

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