High schoolers SUCK at easy runs

You just opened up a whole can of worms with this thread. Good luck

If this thread takes off, within two pages this thread will see posts mentioning Chris Solinsky, Tinman, and Galen Rupp. I guarantee it.

Why America sucks at the marathon.

I often wonder if someone was going to "blog" about their training does that change the way they train? I know if someone was going to ask about my training I would post the best week not just a regular week. I am guessing she doesn't normally do easy runs at 6:40 pace and if she does her coach is an idiot.

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hauwei wrote:

If this thread takes off, within two pages this thread will see posts mentioning Chris Solinsky, Tinman, and Galen Rupp. I guarantee it.

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1) Girls are known to run way too fast on their easy days. I don't know why, but a 18 min girl does her easy runs WAY faster than a 18 min boy. Just because they are a much better athlete (a 18 min girl is prob like a 15 min guy) doesn't mean they can train like one! They should run based on their fitness level.

2) Her easy pace is even faster than Salazar's recommended easy pace which is the fastest out of all coaches I know (5k race pace + 90 sec). She is running at 5k race pace + 60sec, or less on her "easy" days.

3) One reason for all of this could be that she knew Milesplit would write about it, and she just wanted to show off. Just look at the Workout Wednesday videos, often the guys and girl push super hard trying to impress us since they know it's recorded and people are watching. The supposed "threshold" is often 8k pace or faster in these videos which is ridiculous.

While we are at it, this is even more crazy:

https://www.milesplit.com/articles/265486-preseason-training-blog-lansing-catholics-jaden-theis

First run after 2 months of being injured and not on treadmill/alter G, and she runs 6:12 (!) pace. First ,she should be running very slow, 8-10 min miles after injury and her first test run on the roads. And second, she also called it "easy/moderate" - as a 5:02/10:44 runner. That's faster than Daniel's tempo pace or Tinman Tempo pace for a 5:02/10:44 runner!!

On her second run that week, she ran again 2 miles at 6:11 pace.

In the whole week she ran a total of 5.45 miles at 6:11 average, in her first week of road running after injury. How about running 10-15 miles at 8 min pace? Then 20-30 miles next week at 8 min pace?

I'm wondering if these HS kids actually get coached during their off-season/summer, or just train based on feeling because that would explain many things. No wonder they are both injured are all time if they get coached like that or have to write their own training..

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LateRunnerPhil wrote:

While we are at it, this is even more crazy:

https://www.milesplit.com/articles/265486-preseason-training-blog-lansing-catholics-jaden-theis

First run after 2 months of being injured and not on treadmill/alter G, and she runs 6:12 (!) pace. First ,she should be running very slow, 8-10 min miles after injury and her first test run on the roads. And second, she also called it "easy/moderate" - as a 5:02/10:44 runner. That's faster than Daniel's tempo pace or Tinman Tempo pace for a 5:02/10:44 runner!!

On her second run that week, she ran again 2 miles at 6:11 pace.

In the whole week she ran a total of 5.45 miles at 6:11 average, in her first week of road running after injury. How about running 10-15 miles at 8 min pace? Then 20-30 miles next week at 8 min pace?

I'm wondering if these HS kids actually get coached during their off-season/summer, or just train based on feeling because that would explain many things. No wonder they are both injured are all time if they get coached like that or have to write their own training..

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I thought for a mid distance runner [eg 1500, 3000], running a lot of miles at/about 8k pace is actually ~ideal

its not like they are training for distance races [5k+]

eg, if you're going to have limited mileage [which it sounds like they are...], might as well make it count

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sit and kick wrote:

I thought for a mid distance runner [eg 1500, 3000], running a lot of miles at/about 8k pace is actually ~ideal

its not like they are training for distance races [5k+]

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These threads are annoying because very few people ever take other factors into consideration... mainly the mileage component.

Most people on here compare high schoolers to top college or elite runners who run 80-140 miles per week (usually at altitude). A lot of these high schoolers, especially the girls are running maybe 40-50 miles a week or less (the higher mileage distance programs seem to run their distance days pretty easy).
If you’re running 40 miles a week, you can have your ‘easy’ days on the quicker side. Also, usually a high schoolers workout volume is less. Maybe 5-6k of interval volume vs 8-15k for an elite (depending on the event they train for). So the High Schoolers fatigue from a workout is going to be different, plus they tend to bounce back from workouts faster. It’s funny because most people critique the ‘fast’ Kid’s training.... doesn’t that seem ironic?

The realty is- yes, most high schoolers probably run a little too fast on their normal distance days . And as the up the mileage in college, they will need to make a change. But people act like these kids are going to spontaneously explode if they run another easy run sub-7 pace.

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sit and kick wrote:

eg, if you're going to have limited mileage [which it sounds like they are...], might as well make it count

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High school years are difficult. Most high schoolers are incredibly insecure. Insecurity leads people to try and prove themselves in every workout.

Every practice turned into a race when I was in high school.

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c7runner7 wrote:

These threads are annoying because very few people ever take other factors into consideration... mainly the mileage component.

Most people on here compare high schoolers to top college or elite runners who run 80-140 miles per week (usually at altitude). A lot of these high schoolers, especially the girls are running maybe 40-50 miles a week or less (the higher mileage distance programs seem to run their distance days pretty easy).
If you’re running 40 miles a week, you can have your ‘easy’ days on the quicker side. Also, usually a high schoolers workout volume is less. Maybe 5-6k of interval volume vs 8-15k for an elite (depending on the event they train for). So the High Schoolers fatigue from a workout is going to be different, plus they tend to bounce back from workouts faster. It’s funny because most people critique the ‘fast’ Kid’s training.... doesn’t that seem ironic?

The realty is- yes, most high schoolers probably run a little too fast on their normal distance days . And as the up the mileage in college, they will need to make a change. But people act like these kids are going to spontaneously explode if they run another easy run sub-7 pace.

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I agree that those paces are too fast, but definitely not universal. The fastest girl at my high school (around 19:00 for 5k) would run her easy runs with the rest of the girls, probably 9-10 minute pace. Not sure if it helped her or not, compared to faster paced easy runs.

On the flip side, a woman on my college team raced around the same pace for a 5k, but hardly ever ran slower than 7 minute pace. She was one of the top women on the team (NAIA), and also ran the marathon, but I still thought she should have a lot of runs closer to 8 minute pace.

Hard to say which approach "worked" better - both were reasonably consistent without many injury issues, but maybe they could have gone significantly faster with a few changes to their training.

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LateRunnerPhil wrote:

While we are at it, this is even more crazy:

https://www.milesplit.com/articles/265486-preseason-training-blog-lansing-catholics-jaden-theis

First run after 2 months of being injured and not on treadmill/alter G, and she runs 6:12 (!) pace. First ,she should be running very slow, 8-10 min miles after injury and her first test run on the roads. And second, she also called it "easy/moderate" - as a 5:02/10:44 runner. That's faster than Daniel's tempo pace or Tinman Tempo pace for a 5:02/10:44 runner!!

On her second run that week, she ran again 2 miles at 6:11 pace.

In the whole week she ran a total of 5.45 miles at 6:11 average, in her first week of road running after injury. How about running 10-15 miles at 8 min pace? Then 20-30 miles next week at 8 min pace?

I'm wondering if these HS kids actually get coached during their off-season/summer, or just train based on feeling because that would explain many things. No wonder they are both injured are all time if they get coached like that or have to write their own training..

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Coachy Coach wrote:

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c7runner7 wrote:

These threads are annoying because very few people ever take other factors into consideration... mainly the mileage component.

Most people on here compare high schoolers to top college or elite runners who run 80-140 miles per week (usually at altitude). A lot of these high schoolers, especially the girls are running maybe 40-50 miles a week or less (the higher mileage distance programs seem to run their distance days pretty easy).
If you’re running 40 miles a week, you can have your ‘easy’ days on the quicker side. Also, usually a high schoolers workout volume is less. Maybe 5-6k of interval volume vs 8-15k for an elite (depending on the event they train for). So the High Schoolers fatigue from a workout is going to be different, plus they tend to bounce back from workouts faster. It’s funny because most people critique the ‘fast’ Kid’s training.... doesn’t that seem ironic?

The realty is- yes, most high schoolers probably run a little too fast on their normal distance days . And as the up the mileage in college, they will need to make a change. But people act like these kids are going to spontaneously explode if they run another easy run sub-7 pace.

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Have you ever coaches HS? Have you been in HS before? Most doing it too hard? Nope most are not. Beyond that there isn't a girl in the country that should be running their "easy" runs at 6:40 pace. Ever heard of the hard/easy approach?

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c7runner7 wrote:

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Coachy Coach wrote:

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c7runner7 wrote:

These threads are annoying because very few people ever take other factors into consideration... mainly the mileage component.

Most people on here compare high schoolers to top college or elite runners who run 80-140 miles per week (usually at altitude). A lot of these high schoolers, especially the girls are running maybe 40-50 miles a week or less (the higher mileage distance programs seem to run their distance days pretty easy).
If you’re running 40 miles a week, you can have your ‘easy’ days on the quicker side. Also, usually a high schoolers workout volume is less. Maybe 5-6k of interval volume vs 8-15k for an elite (depending on the event they train for). So the High Schoolers fatigue from a workout is going to be different, plus they tend to bounce back from workouts faster. It’s funny because most people critique the ‘fast’ Kid’s training.... doesn’t that seem ironic?

The realty is- yes, most high schoolers probably run a little too fast on their normal distance days . And as the up the mileage in college, they will need to make a change. But people act like these kids are going to spontaneously explode if they run another easy run sub-7 pace.

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Have you ever coaches HS? Have you been in HS before? Most doing it too hard? Nope most are not. Beyond that there isn't a girl in the country that should be running their "easy" runs at 6:40 pace. Ever heard of the hard/easy approach?

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I’m confused.. you said most kids aren’t running too hard but then said they shouldn’t be running 6:40 pace (indicting that pace is too hard).
But yes, I’ve been in high school. Our team was top 10 at NXN... I qualified for NXN as an Individual one year and Footlocker Champs another year. I Also have coached high school (now coach a different level). And implement hard and easy days like every other competent coach. *I also personally know several national caliber girls that run 6:40 pace on easy days (I don’t coach them). My point is that moderately-fast ‘easy’ days are the absolute best approach... just that it doesn’t absolutely destroy the athletes.

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