Sub 3HR Fall Marathon Thread - The quest for less amateur glory begins?

cut back a bit to 50 miles this week, as my legs were tired from recent mileage increase.

Did long hill reps with my club on tuesday. Then a progression thursday ending with a few miles around 6 flat pace that felt awesome with a big tailwind.

Feel fresh again today and will try to boost mileage a bit this week.

Going to jump in. Training for a marathon on 10/6.

Indy J - wow, fantastic pacing and finish! It looks like you definitely executed perfectly and left it all out there! I don't think I've ever seen a "mortal" pace the marathon so well before!

My training: Goal is a negative split 3:20

9/2/2019 - 9/8/2019

Monday - 3 miles recovery (8:40 pace)

Tuesday - 6 miles (8:00 pace)

Wednesday - 10 miles (7:33 pace) (7,8,9 at 6:40 pace)

Thursday - 6 miles recovery (8:15 pace)

Friday - 6.2 miles (7:50 pace)

Saturday - off - ran out of time to run during the day.

Sunday - 20.3 miles (7:54 pace) with last 2 miles at 7:20, 7:15

Total mileage ~52 miles

mwh - smart to cut back on mileage...as the ole saying goes, its not a sprint...

hello there. wrote:

Going to jump in. Training for a marathon on 10/6.

Indy J - wow, fantastic pacing and finish! It looks like you definitely executed perfectly and left it all out there! I don't think I've ever seen a "mortal" pace the marathon so well before!

My training: Goal is a negative split 3:20

9/2/2019 - 9/8/2019

Monday - 3 miles recovery (8:40 pace)

Tuesday - 6 miles (8:00 pace)

Wednesday - 10 miles (7:33 pace) (7,8,9 at 6:40 pace)

Thursday - 6 miles recovery (8:15 pace)

Friday - 6.2 miles (7:50 pace)

Saturday - off - ran out of time to run during the day.

Sunday - 20.3 miles (7:54 pace) with last 2 miles at 7:20, 7:15

Total mileage ~52 miles

Nice numbers - I am fairly new to running but seems like you can go beyond a 3:20 with that 10 miler and the long run...what is your marathon history?

went 3:09 (1:30,1:39) in 2010 when I was 23 :P

hello there. wrote:

went 3:09 (1:30,1:39) in 2010 when I was 23 :P

all the reason to crush that!

Nice, a place for us "hobby joggers"

Sub-3:00 goal for Boston 2020. Ran 3:00:58 last spring at Illinois Marathon.

Currently training for a half in November with a steep goal of sub-1:22 on a pancake flat course. If I hit that, I'll have great confidence in the sub-3:00.

36 yrs old, been running since I was 15, but took a long break after college until about 3 years ago.

runnerchef wrote:

hello there. wrote:

went 3:09 (1:30,1:39) in 2010 when I was 23 :P

all the reason to crush that!

We'll see! Maybe next cycle!

Monday - 8.5 - first 7.5 8:00/mile with last mile in 6:01

Tuesday - 4 miles easy 32:00

Wednesday - 6 miles easy 7:38 pace

Thursday - 5 miles easy 40:00

Friday - 10 miles - 2 up + 3.1 (6:39, 6:38, 6:29) + 5 down (7:21, 7:27, 7:54, 7:48, 7:42) - total run was continuous. Felt really good on this one. Average total pace was 7:25.

Saturday - 3 miles recovery / primer for long-run 8:30 pace

Sunday - long run - another 20.25 miles - 7:51 pace. 19th mile in 6:40. 7:48 pace from the 7th mile through the completion of the 18th mile before dropping that 6:40. The 6:40 felt good, but I'm not very confident I could sustain that pace for a HM (more likely 6:50).

Total miles 57. May go for another 3 this evening to hit 60 :)

Question - I'm finding that the first mile of a lot of my runs is in the 8:00-8:20 range before getting into a stronger pace. Also, my long runs tend to go out in 8:30-8:55 range before grinding down. Today's 20 miler saw a spread from 8:40 to 6:40. Any thoughts on warming up for the marathon? I'm thinking I may need to do a mile and strides to get the engine revved.

Lads and lasses, hope you all have had a good week. Here's mine -

43-year-old male. 63 miles total for the week, 6 weeks to go.

Sun- 5x1000m - 3:27 3:26 3:27 3:26 3:24

Mon- 5 miles (8:07 pace)

Tues- 23 miles (8:17 pace to 20, then bonk)

Wed- 8 miles easy closing with 7:49, 7:10, 6:23

Thur- 14.1 miles (7:02 pace)

Fri - 7 miles (8:33 pace)

Sat- off

My biggest mileage week so far. The past 12 weeks have been 45, 46, 6, 53, 40, 41, 37, 42, 48, 55, 49, 63

I headed to the track last Sunday, first time in a while. 1.5-mile warmup, 5 x 1000 at 5K goal pace (2-minute jogs), 1-mile warmdown.

Tuesday's long run went well. I kept a good pace to 20, then slowed to 9:40 pace for final 3 miles. It was a planned depletion run, so the bonk wasn't a surprise.

Recovery run Wednesday, then Thursday I cranked a 14-miler at 7:02 pace. Super happy with that on rolling hills.

Carry on.

hello there. wrote:

Any thoughts on warming up for the marathon? I'm thinking I may need to do a mile and strides to get the engine revved.

My rule of thumb: For sub-3 marathons, jog about a half mile, run a few easy strides like 5K pace. For slower marathons, no warmup, just start easy and ease into marathon pace after the first mile.

last chance runner wrote:

Lads and lasses, hope you all have had a good week. Here's mine -

43-year-old male. 63 miles total for the week, 6 weeks to go.

Sun- 5x1000m - 3:27 3:26 3:27 3:26 3:24

Mon- 5 miles (8:07 pace)

Tues- 23 miles (8:17 pace to 20, then bonk)

Wed- 8 miles easy closing with 7:49, 7:10, 6:23

Thur- 14.1 miles (7:02 pace)

Fri - 7 miles (8:33 pace)

Sat- off

My biggest mileage week so far. The past 12 weeks have been 45, 46, 6, 53, 40, 41, 37, 42, 48, 55, 49, 63

I headed to the track last Sunday, first time in a while. 1.5-mile warmup, 5 x 1000 at 5K goal pace (2-minute jogs), 1-mile warmdown.

Tuesday's long run went well. I kept a good pace to 20, then slowed to 9:40 pace for final 3 miles. It was a planned depletion run, so the bonk wasn't a surprise.

Recovery run Wednesday, then Thursday I cranked a 14-miler at 7:02 pace. Super happy with that on rolling hills.

Carry on.

Big mileage - nice work. Why did you want to deplete yourself on the 23 miler?

Had a good week this week - hit my new weekly mileage PR at 80.3

Monday - commute double 13 miles

Tuesday - Fartlek to work, ez back 13 total

Weds - commute double 13 miles

Thursday - commute double 13 miles

Friday - off

Saturday - 10k race - first 10k I’m racing in 3 years - went out a bit fast 5:40 / 5:53 / 5:53 / then came back 6:08 / 6:23 / 5:58 for a 37:20 6:00 pace - was hoping for 36:40 or so at 5:55 - how much should I read into this? The calculators suggest for me to hit my goal MP of 2:53 I needed to be around the 36:40. Wasn’t fresh legs and I paced so bad?

Sunday - 17 miler - kept HR in zone 2 (sub 140 with a 195 max) and averaged 7:49 comfortably no issues

Appreciate thoughts on 10k!

runnerchef wrote:

Big mileage - nice work. Why did you want to deplete yourself on the 23 miler?

A theory explanation from Canadian Running Magazine: "The basic idea behind a depletion run is to train the body to use alternate fuel sources, such as fat, when it’s preferred fuel of carbs is in short supply. This is particularly important for distance runners who find themselves with limited glycogen near the end of a long run or race such as the marathon.

"The more efficiently a runner is able to use fat stores for energy–which exist in a nearly endless supply–the longer they’ll be able to maintain their pace in a long race and arrive at the finish faster. Depletion runs train the body to both use its available glycogen more efficiently and also to use fats when glycogen levels are low. They may also impact (increase) how much total glycogen our body is able to create and store which then becomes available the next time we need it."

Valid? Don't know but that's what I do.

runnerchef wrote:

Saturday - 10k race - first 10k I’m racing in 3 years - went out a bit fast 5:40 / 5:53 / 5:53 / then came back 6:08 / 6:23 / 5:58 for a 37:20 6:00 pace - was hoping for 36:40 or so at 5:55 - how much should I read into this? The calculators suggest for me to hit my goal MP of 2:53 I needed to be around the 36:40. Wasn’t fresh legs and I paced so bad? !

Bad pacing and tired legs. I sure wouldn't worry about it. The fact that you held pace through 5K after that crazy first mile says you're in great shape. Coming back the next day for a strong long run is also a very good sign.

You should feel good about that 10k. You didn’t have fresh legs. The taper shouldn’t be overlooked. I’m certain you would’ve done it faster on fresh legs.

last chance runner wrote:

hello there. wrote:

Any thoughts on warming up for the marathon? I'm thinking I may need to do a mile and strides to get the engine revved.

My rule of thumb: For sub-3 marathons, jog about a half mile, run a few easy strides like 5K pace. For slower marathons, no warmup, just start easy and ease into marathon pace after the first mile.

Spot on. Went 2:59:15 last fall. Cool day - 5 min easy + a few strides and one final Porto stop. First couple miles were a bit behind goal pace, but eased in more comfortably.

Runnerchef - Agree with LCR. Tired legs and poor pacing. You have 36:30 in you comfortably. If I were you, my big takeaway would be to get out EASY on marathon day. Blowing up in the second half of a marathon is significantly more painful than the second half of a 10k.

Thanks for the excerpt - really interesting and it makes sense. Likely good for you to get down to race weight too!

Thanks all for the thoughts on the 10k - new to all this so really sensitive! Will continue plowing ahead. As one mentioned, it’ll be key to go out slowly and steadily in the first few miles. I’m running nyc so I think it’s the Veirranzzano Bridge - can’t burn myself up there

Have a great week everyone!

Hi,

Posting my last week of training. Doing a half marathon for the first time but looking at a full in the spring and will likely target 3 hours. Would love feedback from this group on how to approach the taper seeing as I have never raced anything over a mile before and haven't really run in 14 years.

Age: 34m

Other info: Started running again about 3 months ago to lose weight (50 lbs in 90 days so far!) and have just kind of gotten into it

Weight/Height: 190/6'2"

Target race: Half marathon on 10/13

Target time: 1:30-1:35

Training week of 9/8

Sunday - 10.85 slow and hilly. Averaged 7:58 pace. Ran with a buddy who is a bit slower so stuck with him. Still recovering from a hard 12 on Friday.

Monday - Cross train (elliptical) 1 hour.

Tuesday - 8 progression. Started at 8:20/7:38/7:29/7:18/7:13/7:10/6:54/6:27. Average 7:17. Felt easy.

Wednesday - 8 steady (average 7:30)

Thursday - Track workout. 1.5 w/u, 2xMile, 2x800, 2x400 with 400 jog recovery, 1.5 c/d. 6:20/6:12/2:55/2:50/1:10/1:14

Friday - 5 easy (7:39 pace)

Saturday - 14 long run (10 hard tempo/4 cool down) on a hard hilly loop. 7:04/6:23/6:34/6:24/6:01/6:24/6:21/6:24/6:19/6:26. Average 6:25 for a total of 1:04:12. Stopped for 45 seconds or so at 5 miles for a gel and some water. Cooled down 4 miles at 7:50 pace. Felt really strong. Definitely my best workout to date. Was a hard effort but certainly not all out.

Total: 53 miles.

I was going to try to keep the mileage steady for the next 2 weeks with a 15 mile long run both weeks and then cut back to 40 and 30 in the 2 weeks leading up to the race. Any feedback on how to approach? Also curious on potential race plans in light of the 10 miles on Saturday. 1:35 seems a little soft but I do want to set myself up for success.

Given your workout on Saturday, I think you might blow the doors off your target HM time of 1:35-1:30. I just ran an HM at 1:23:low and wouldn't have be able to sustain those last 8 miles at those paces in a solo time trial in training. Best I could manage was probably 6 miles @ 6:30 pace. It will be fun to see what you do.