Mike Woods set to become first ever sub-4 miler and Tour de France finisher... How would today’s distance stars fair?

StagnantDynamo wrote:

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/07/mike-woods-the-first-man-to-run-a-sub-4-minute-mile-and-finish-the-tour-de-france/

The UMich alum and former teammate of Nick Willis is set to become the first ever sub-4 miler and TDF finisher.

On that note: how many of today’s current distance runners could finish the Tour given, say, a year of cycling training? Who? Could any (Kipchoge, Farah, Rupp?) contend for top 10/3 in the GC?

In a year? No. No chance. Maybe they could, MAYBE, get through the tour and not miss time cuts. But that would be like 1 in 20 odds at best.

In two or three years? Yea, they could have the fitness to contend, IF it translated over to the bike well (it often does, but not for everyone). The biggest aspect is building the overall volume and fatigue resistance to do efforts over and over. That takes years to build up. On block of 3-6 months doing 30 hours a week doesn't give you the endurance to keep smashing it 4 climbs in to a 180km climbing stage in week 3 of the tour.

The other big, and critical factor, is learning how to race and handle bikes in the peleton. Wasted energy, crashing, not knowing how to position, descending, etc. are all critical skills...and you can be the fittest guy in the race and get outright dropped if you're deficient enough. These skills, especially riding in the peleton and positioning , don't come in a year. They usually take many years, and the ones that have them the best are the ones that have been racing since junior days.

Mike Woods is a good example. Within a year or two he was doing single climb efforts at pro level powers. But it took several years to actually be able to race at WT level, and even longer to get good results. Why? Lack of bike handling and lack of ability to produce 6 w/kg 5 hours into a race. Even now, if Woods has one weakness, it's his admit weaker bike handling and positioning. He just doesn't have the same skills and ability as most the these guys that have been racing since they were 10.

doctorj wrote:

Seriouslee? wrote:

Seriously? Kipchoge's aerobic engine, mental toughness, and life at high altitude would definitely translate to the bike. A year of training would be enough time to learn the aerodynamics/descending skills needed to contend.

Rupp's a little harder to predict. But if Alberto put his mind together with the best coaches in cycling I'd predict a top-50 finish at the very least.

Yes, seriously. One year won't be enough, and if he tried he will be lucky to be the lantern rouge. It is idiotic of you to think that it only takes knowing aerodynamics/descending skills to be a decent cyclist to contend, obviously you have no idea of what you are talking about, just another stupid fantasy question from someone that probably hit puberty a week ago.

You don't know what you're talking about. One year is plenty of time to learn how to climb & time trial - descending skills will take a lot longer to develope but a lot of that is mental. Some cyclists just don't like going downhill fast (e.g., Jan Ulrich).

Elite distance runners have the huge aerobic capacity to kill it cycling, particularly with climbing. They just need the time to learn how handle a bike, be comfortable in an aerodynamic position on a TT bike and learn some descending skills. No different than learning how to drive a manual transmission of a car - takes time & practice.

I don't think the majority of these pure pro cyclists have great aerobic capacity - definitely not compared to elite runners. So many of them in Europe started cycling as soon as they could walk and they're not that successful. But low and behold, here comes Micheal Woods from a running background and after a few years of cycling starts destroying long time pure cyclists who must be shaking their heads in disbelief. Lol.

Woods, with absolutely NO cycling background, turns pro in 2013 and 4 freaking years later finishes 7th in the 2017 mountainous VUELTA ESPANA! If you know anything about cycling (or have cycled yourself) a top ten finish in one of the 3 Grand Tours is outstanding! There are hundreds of European pro cyclists who started cycling as soon as they could walk and they would give anything to finish in the top 10 of a GT!

Look at accomplishments of Woods so far in his young cycling career. And Woods finished this year's Tour with 2 broken ribs from an early crash that definitely hindered his performance significantly.

Elite runners transitioning to cycling would flip the cycling world upside down.

Semenyagoat wrote:

Cyclists make much more money. No reason to run really

And get the attention of more girls! ?

Harambe wrote:

Confused about all the people saying the elite 10k guys wouldn't translate well.

Look at the frames of Froome and Bernal, etc? Are those guys really more like a 1500m runner? They are optimized to put out big efforts for 30min-1hr. Much like a 10k+ guy.

For a GC contender you'd have to think there's some alignment.

Sure, for grabbing podiums at your local crit 800-1500m seems like a better domain.

Not saying they'd compete, just saying it's analogous.

Froome is built like a Kenyan distance runner and Bernal is listed at 5-9, 132 lbs. Put these guys in running shorts and singlets and they look no different than elite distance runners - basically diminutive flyweights with no muscle mass.

☝️ OTOH, a few top GT contenders who are built more like 800/1500 guys are Kruijswijk, Dumoulin & Thomas.

On the other hand, there are a few cyclists who have become mountain runners... Power in the legs is crucial, as is climbing.

Usually if you don't have a pro contract by 23, you'll never get one, and you move on.

"Woods, with absolutely NO cycling background, turns pro in 2013"

That is not how any of this works.

Yes these arguments are very reductive. People develop passions for different sports. I went from being a cyclist who loves to run to being a runner who loves to bike. I did this because cycling as a sport is just too damn hard and running as a sport is so comparatively easy.

So many of the things that go wrong for a cyclist don't happen to runners.

Manny Pacquiao could probably win the TDF

Please stop talking wrote:

"Woods, with absolutely NO cycling background, turns pro in 2013"

That is not how any of this works.

Then how is it supposed to work?

Again: Woods after 4 yrs as a pro finishes 7th in the 2017 Vuelta a España:

A brutal 3 week Grand Tour through the high mountains of Spain competing against the likes of Tour champions and legends Froome, Contador & Nibali.

Elite runners transitioning to cycling can mix it up with the best.

The easiest transition would be for a big muscular dude like Paul McMullen to transition to riding an ITT.

Descent and pack riding skills are years in the making.

Big mountain climbs might be something that a 5k guy might be able to master, but it would take more than a year.

CoachB wrote:

The easiest transition would be for a big muscular dude like Paul McMullen to transition to riding an ITT.

Descent and pack riding skills are years in the making.

Big mountain climbs might be something that a 5k guy might be able to master, but it would take more than a year.

Paul McMullen did become a cyclist after his running career. It was mentioned Chris Lears book "Sub 4:00".

Positive Contribution wrote:

CoachB wrote:

The easiest transition would be for a big muscular dude like Paul McMullen to transition to riding an ITT.

Descent and pack riding skills are years in the making.

Big mountain climbs might be something that a 5k guy might be able to master, but it would take more than a year.

Paul McMullen did become a cyclist after his running career. It was mentioned Chris Lears book "Sub 4:00".

Hahaha. I honestly did not know that. I can’t imagine he was much of a climber, although he did shave off some weight from one of his feet.

One year after his pro carrer ended because he was not good enough to compete, French cyclist Laurent Brochard ran two marathons at age 41 : 2h42 and 2h36. He then moved to ultra running as a casual runner.

No runner has legs like these

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitness/heres-science-behind-pawel-poljanskis-legs-veiny-343017

That cyclist has an eating disorder.

Woods had surgeries from stress fractures as a runner and quit in 2007. It was six years later, after he had ridden a good deal before he turned professional as a cyclist. He then moved up very rapidly, to seventh at the Vuelta, 2nd at Liege, and 3rd at the World Cycling Road Racing championship, as well as finishing the Tour de France.

3:57.48 at age 18 is right up there with the best American high schoolers ever, with the exception of Webb and Ryan.

This was not just a sub-4 miler, but among the most talented prep distance runners ever.

He finished 32nd.

Voice of Reason wrote:

Please stop talking wrote:

"Woods, with absolutely NO cycling background, turns pro in 2013"

That is not how any of this works.

Then how is it supposed to work?

Again: Woods after 4 yrs as a pro finishes 7th in the 2017 Vuelta a España:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Vuelta_a_España

A brutal 3 week Grand Tour through the high mountains of Spain competing against the likes of Tour champions and legends Froome, Contador & Nibali.

Elite runners transitioning to cycling can mix it up with the best.

My issue was with your first statement that he went pro in 2013 with NO cycling background. He had a cycling background and "going pro" is not some binary distinction where you're the king of the MUT one weekend and a World Tour rider the next. He started cycling seriously in 2011. He did the Tour de Beauce in 2012 with some big names but was racing then as a Cat 2 He was on 4 different continental teams (as distinct from pro teams by UCI terminology) of varying quality from 2013 though 2015 and I don't think made it to a true pro team until Cannondale in 2016, the same year he got named to the Canadian national team. From his own website "This result, along with several others, earned him a spot on the 2016 Cannondale Pro Cycling team, making Woods, at 29, one of the oldest neo pros in cycling history"

One year from hugely fit and talented beginner to Cat 2 is incredible but it's not unprecedented.

Four years to get from local hero to signing your first true pro contracts is the same.

6.5 years to realize your innate talent in any sport is about what you'd expect.

Not running, but another interesting transition is that of Eric Heiden. Won every speedskating gold medal at the 1980 Olympics in Lake Placid:. 500 to 10k. Used cycling as part of regular training, and then transitioned to pro cycling as part of 7-Eleven. Kind of crushed in the Tour. Granted, not the same physique as the climbers