TOP 10 HIGHSCHOOL DISTANCE BOYS OF ALL TIME

??????????????????? wrote:

No Rudy Chapa?

First guy I thought of when I saw the OP's list. I expect Chapa to be in the top three.

Gerry, of course, has to be right up there.

Haven't read the whole thread yet and just want to throw in a couple of quick thoughts... IMO, it's

Ryun and Lindgren in either order

Probably Webb

Everyone else

I feel most strongly about Ryun and Lindgren as the top two... 3:55 in on a dirt track in the 60's? 8:40i which lasted for like half a century? They are in a class of their own IMO, and yes it's kind of unfair to give them such a boost because they came first, but it's the main way to separate them especially because their times would *still be ridiculous today.* I think the national indoor two mile record going into Lindgren's senior year was 9:27. He lowered it BY ALMOST A MINUTE AND THEN IT LASTED FOR FIFTY YEARS. They were doing stuff that was just so beyond what anyone had ever dreamed of.

Intergalactic wrote:

Haven't read the whole thread yet and just want to throw in a couple of quick thoughts... IMO, it's

Ryun and Lindgren in either order

Probably Webb

Everyone else

I feel most strongly about Ryun and Lindgren as the top two... 3:55 in on a dirt track in the 60's? 8:40i which lasted for like half a century? They are in a class of their own IMO, and yes it's kind of unfair to give them such a boost because they came first, but it's the main way to separate them especially because their times would *still be ridiculous today.* I think the national indoor two mile record going into Lindgren's senior year was 9:27. He lowered it BY ALMOST A MINUTE AND THEN IT LASTED FOR FIFTY YEARS. They were doing stuff that was just so beyond what anyone had ever dreamed of.

Spot on. There's Ryun and Lindgren, and then there's everyone else. Out kicking Peter Snell, who had won the 8 and 15 in Tokyo? Making an Olympic team at the mens 1500 as a junior in high school? Ryun was the greatest U.S. boys high school runner, period. In all boys h.s. track and field, Lindgren would be second, with probably Bob Mathius, Michael Carter, Carl Lewis, Houston McTear and Renaldo Nehemiah on the third tier.

Rupp broke Lindgren's 5,000m record by 7 seconds.....13:37

Verzbicas 8:29!

That 1337 performance is a top 10 performance. The rest of the career though doesnt back it up.

Compare to Verbicas with that fast 2 mile, sub 4 mile, a bunch of national titles. It isn't that Rupp wasn't a great HS runner. He is just a notch lower.

The top half dozen or so with ryun,Webb, Lindgren, Verbicas, Ritz are pretty easy. Lots on NC,Olympic teams or really fast times. After that you can start making arguments and personal preferences start to matter. That chapa 10k is nuts but it isn't like they had Footlocker back then. WC was great but it was a bunch of Europeans back then. Weak field.

I put weight on the surfaces of the past but I still have Webb #1.

3:53/1:47/8:40s > 3:55/9:01 on bad surface for me.

Also lowering a record by almost a minute displays how weak that record was. I am not calculating making a pro team or even medaling at all for the older guys. That is not feasible in this era unless you are a 1:43/3:50 /13:10 guy in high school.

Surprised that only one person has mentioned the Rocket, Chris Solinsky. Destroyed the footlocker field, third his junior year too! Crazy solo run at Arcadia.

coachcommentsnicely wrote:

Surprised that only one person has mentioned the Rocket, Chris Solinsky. Destroyed the footlocker field, third his junior year too! Crazy solo run at Arcadia.

+1

Sam Affolder? Sean Dolan? Do you really think they should be on the same list as Ryan, Lindgren, and Webb?

Yeah--Jacob Ingebrigtsen seems more comparable to Ryan and Lindgren and most of the other people on the list if you are looking for a more modern analogue who is non African and don't have to try to independently verify age.

I believe the inferior tracks and shoes of the 60's would be more than two seconds slower than the 3:53 that Webb ran. Webb just tucked behind El G and company and let them do much of the work. Ryan ran a gutsy race closing in 53. Webb would have been lucky to break 4 in that race which the same shoes. While still technically a junior (under 20), Ryan ran 1:44 880, a 3:51 mile, and 8:25 2 mile which still has not been duplicated to my knowledge.

The thing is the training volume of guys in the 60s/70s was much higher than the “modern” high school period. Back then running 100 mpw wasn’t a big deal and more a norm. In the modern era it has been a rare exception. On the flip side modern track surface and shoe technology is faster.

It would be interesting to see how guys like Webb and Verzbicas would have done in a era where 100 mpw is a norm. Also it would be interesting to see how Ryun and Lindgren would do with the modern technologies,

Imo comparing eras is apples to oranges. So I see it as pre 1980 Ryun is the greatest mid distance (880/mile) and Lindgren the greatest distance (2 mile/XC). Post 1980 Webb is the greatest mid distance and Verzbicas the greatest distance.

They are the top 4. Everyone else is a wild guess.

You make an interesting and valid point that helps summarize our debates. I had talked to several runners who ran hs circa 1965 or 1970 and 80 to 100 mpw seemed surprisingly common even among non-elites. Now the pendulum has swung in the other direction. Sebastian Coe did more moderate mileage but a lot of cross training but showed that mileage per se was not essential for being world class. Some schools that have been consistently successful in cross country, e.g. Fayetteville-Manlius and Saratoga Springs in upstate NY and York hs in Illinois, are well known for having high mileage regimes so that philosophy is not entirely dead. I hear that Ingrebrigtsen trains around 100 mpw as do the Africans. Jim Ryan did that during the off-season but tapered during competition. Lindgren was off the charts in mileage if you take him for his word. Mileage is correlated with success in distance events but the concern is that is leads to shorter careers and burnout by the time athletes reach the collegiate level. In some ways, training is individual in that some people break down above 80 mpw whereas others thrive. Certainly it is an area that deserves further study.

As an aside, shoes have particularly improved in recent years. Now some say Vaporflies can lead to a 4% improvement in some road times. It is not something that people have discussed much here but it not a trivial matter.

I know that he may not be the most popular person on LR, but it's surprising that Salazar has only been mentioned once. He was a 2-time US Jr. 5000 champ while still in HS, and while his 8:57 may not sound impressive, it was run on a flat, terrible BC indoor track. Would be indexed at a mid 8:40's today. He ran very well in the US CC open nationals as a senior in HS for the Greater Boston Track Club. His HS career may be a little downplayed because he was part of one of the greatest classes in HS history ('76: Chapa, Hulst, Salazar, Tom Hunt), but he was outstanding.

mooonshot wrote:

This should help -

https://trackandfieldnews.com/tfn-lists/high-school-all-time-top-10s-boys/

This list concerns the top ten DISTANCE runners. The 10,000 should carry a lot more weight than the mile.

Check out T&FN's list. The top three, Rudy Chapa, Eric Hulst and Bill McChesney all ran their fastest in 1976. But in 1975 they also had top ten all-time performances as underclassmen. Chapa and Hulst were juniors and McChesney a sophomore! And two of the other top nine performers also ran in 1975. George Watt and Thom Hunt. Hunt was a junior. So 5 of the fastest 9 all-time 10,000 kids were in that one year, 1975.

I remember when Matt Withrow owed Rupp at the 2003 Footlocker. One of the all-time great balls performances.

"The USA does not develop track & field athletes, it uses them."

We have by far the best track & field of any nation in the world.

What happens to these people when they get to be 22 or 23?

Most go nowhere. In fact, many more are done at 18 because they cannot get into colleges.

So far, no ...? wrote:

So far, no posters have stated Martin Liquori. He made 1968 Olympic final, 1500m at age 19. No one else listed on this thread made an Olympic final before age 20.

Ummm.......Gerry Lindgren age 18. Hello?