I'm guessing this is just a list of US high school athletes? You know cause the rest of the world shouldn't be included right?
I'm guessing this is just a list of US high school athletes? You know cause the rest of the world shouldn't be included right?
There is no "high school" in the rest of the world. Only America uses that terminology.
Martin Liquori was a sub-4 high school one mile runner on cinder. Not all the others listed can say that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Patrick%27s_High_School_(Iten,_Kenya)mooonshot wrote:
There is no "high school" in the rest of the world. Only America uses that terminology.
I think St. Patrick's is considered a high school and they've had a few good runners.
Hard not to mention some of the high school athletes running in Japan.
Not naming Eric Hulst shows you do not know $hit.
Eric Hulst should be at least an honorable mention.
http://www.runblogrun.com/2018/04/considering-eric-hulst-by-larry-eder.html
Seyta wrote:
DISCUS THE BOYS wrote:
So Total Running Productions just posted a Youtube video today listing the top 10 highschool distance guys of all time. This is the order listed in the video:
1) Jim Ryun
2) Gerry Lindgren
3) Dathan Ritzenhein
4) Alan Webb
5) Craig Virgin
6) Lukas Verzbicas
7) German Fernandez
8) Steve Prefontaine
9) Jeff Nelson
10) Galen Rupp
Honorable Mentions: Grant Fisher, Casey Clinger, Drew Hunter, Edward Cheserek
Do you guys agree with this list? Based off of strictly high school success btw. I think we should value accomplishments over PBs in this case. However, it's hard because a lot of these guys didn't have national championships to race in. Little odd to leave Drew Hunter off the list after all he did though. Also, two multiple time Footlocker champs ranked behind a guy who had an impressive double at a state meet, national record holder in the mile, and a guy who ran a 1337 5K.
Per usual, DISCUS
The order is up for debate depending on what you prioritize. I personally put very little weight into the fact that Ryun and Lindgren were considered "world class" in high school, since track & field back in the 1960s was a painfully shallow sport with no monetary incentives whatsoever.
Of everyone on the list though, Fernandez and Prefontaine should be replaced by Reuben Reina, Edward Cheserek, . Everyone up there either has an accomplishment or time that cannot be equaled by anyone else, in addition to a very good body of work. These guys are exceptions.
- Ryun has his mile (which has only been beaten by Webb) and his world class performances (at the time).
- Lindgren has his world class performances (at the time).
- Ritz has his World Jr. XC performance.
- Webb has his Mile.
- Verzbicas has his 2-Mile, along with the fact that he won the triple-crown at NBIN, and won NXN and FL in the same year.
- Rupp has his 5K.
- Reina has his 10K.
- Cheserek has his indoor 5K and 2-Mile, coupled with a very good body of work in cross country.
Fernandez' times are overshadowed in every way by Verzbicas, and he was comparatively poor in cross country. Prefontaine is likely only here because of his popularity.
Nelson and Virgin are somewhat questionable, as Nelson's claim is his 4th place finish at World Jr. XC (which is technically overshadowed by Ritz). Virgin's claim is his 13:50 course record in Illinois, which Non-Illinois residents never actually have the chance to break.
I think the California State meet record at Woodward is one of the most of his most impressive performances. 14:24 on a course that's been run by California's best is ridiculous. It's 14 seconds faster than the 2nd best time. For reference, Ryan Hall ran 14:50 here.
I think what people are missing here, is how good every highschooler would have been had they received equal training. HS training varies hugely from one high school to another, and thats not even factoring in the different eras. Some guys barely trained in high school or started late not knowing they had talent. This is how a 5k final would turn out if all high schoolers ever received the same coaching:
1. Alberto Salazer
2. Steve Prefontaine
3. Bill McChesney
4. Rudy Chapa
5. Jim Hill
6. Alan Webb
7. Eric Jenkins
8. Bob Kennedy
9. Josh McDougal
10. Jim Ryun.
runthenight wrote:
Seyta wrote:
The order is up for debate depending on what you prioritize. I personally put very little weight into the fact that Ryun and Lindgren were considered "world class" in high school, since track & field back in the 1960s was a painfully shallow sport with no monetary incentives whatsoever.
Of everyone on the list though, Fernandez and Prefontaine should be replaced by Reuben Reina, Edward Cheserek, . Everyone up there either has an accomplishment or time that cannot be equaled by anyone else, in addition to a very good body of work. These guys are exceptions.
- Ryun has his mile (which has only been beaten by Webb) and his world class performances (at the time).
- Lindgren has his world class performances (at the time).
- Ritz has his World Jr. XC performance.
- Webb has his Mile.
- Verzbicas has his 2-Mile, along with the fact that he won the triple-crown at NBIN, and won NXN and FL in the same year.
- Rupp has his 5K.
- Reina has his 10K.
- Cheserek has his indoor 5K and 2-Mile, coupled with a very good body of work in cross country.
Fernandez' times are overshadowed in every way by Verzbicas, and he was comparatively poor in cross country. Prefontaine is likely only here because of his popularity.
Nelson and Virgin are somewhat questionable, as Nelson's claim is his 4th place finish at World Jr. XC (which is technically overshadowed by Ritz). Virgin's claim is his 13:50 course record in Illinois, which Non-Illinois residents never actually have the chance to break.
I think the California State meet record at Woodward is one of the most of his most impressive performances. 14:24 on a course that's been run by California's best is ridiculous. It's 14 seconds faster than the 2nd best time. For reference, Ryan Hall ran 14:50 here.
I think it may be debatable if Fernandez should be on the list, but there is still something special about his 4:00.29/8:34.23 at his state meet. Those other guys ran their fastest times in fast races with pacers, pros, or against fast competition.
DISCUS THE BOYS wrote:
So Total Running Productions just posted a Youtube video today listing the top 10 highschool distance guys of all time. This is the order listed in the video:
1) Jim Ryun
2) Gerry Lindgren
3) Dathan Ritzenhein
4) Alan Webb
5) Craig Virgin
6) Lukas Verzbicas
7) German Fernandez
8) Steve Prefontaine
9) Jeff Nelson
10) Galen Rupp
Honorable Mentions: Grant Fisher, Casey Clinger, Drew Hunter, Edward Cheserek
Do you guys agree with this list? Based off of strictly high school success btw. I think we should value accomplishments over PBs in this case. However, it's hard because a lot of these guys didn't have national championships to race in. Little odd to leave Drew Hunter off the list after all he did though. Also, two multiple time Footlocker champs ranked behind a guy who had an impressive double at a state meet, national record holder in the mile, and a guy who ran a 1337 5K.
Per usual, DISCUS
1. Alan Webb- 3:53, 1:46
2.jim ryun- 3:55 Just wish he ran some other longer distances seriously
3. Ritz - best xc guy. He is our Bekele in XC. dropped hall and webb with a 4:36 second mile in FL.
4. Drew hunter- Basically German Fernandez but slightly faster 1:49, 3:57, 7:59
5. German Fernandez
6. verzbicas- 8:29,3:59, triple indoor champ, FL and NxN double over Cheserek (FL champ), lutz(nxn champ), futsum(nxn champ) and the rosas, his sub 15 at FL looked so easy
7. Lindgren -the ritz prototype
8. Virgin 13:57,8:40, 8:40
9. Rudy chapa
Only Lindgren and Ritz are real threats to his 10k
10. Grant Fisher - double FL champ, 3:59, 8:42
Steve Prefontaine shouldn't be in the top 10.
, wrote:
Steve Prefontaine shouldn't be in the top 10.
I think what people are missing here, is how good every highschooler would have been had they received equal training. HS training varies hugely from one high school to another, and thats not even factoring in the different eras. Some guys barely trained in high school or started late not knowing they had talent. This is how a 5k final would turn out if all high schoolers ever received the same coaching:
1. Alberto Salazer
2. Steve Prefontaine
3. Bill McChesney
4. Rudy Chapa
5. Jim Hill
6. Alan Webb
7. Eric Jenkins
8. Bob Kennedy
9. Josh McDougal
10. Jim Ryun
No way Ritz should be ranked way over Verzbicas. The only two races of his HS career that LV ever worked hard all the way to the finish were his sub-4 mile and the two mile record. King Ches never beat him. I believe that if LV had trained for Footlocker only and ran for the record, he would have taken down the Reuben Reina course record.
You can't compare the earlier Footlocker courses to the Balboa Park course. They were much easier.
BRUKNER KHAN wrote:
Not naming Eric Hulst shows you do not know $hit.
Hulst should be on the list.
GOLD medal in world junior XC
Hulst was the first [and still only the second] U.S. high schooler to run under 29 for 10,000 meters.
master of lists wrote:
I think what people are missing here, is how good every highschooler would have been had they received equal training. HS training varies hugely from one high school to another, and thats not even factoring in the different eras. Some guys barely trained in high school or started late not knowing they had talent. This is how a 5k final would turn out if all high schoolers ever received the same coaching:
1. Alberto Salazer
2. Steve Prefontaine
3. Bill McChesney
4. Rudy Chapa
5. Jim Hill
6. Alan Webb
7. Eric Jenkins
8. Bob Kennedy
9. Josh McDougal
10. Jim Ryun.
Come on?
What about Virgin, Trautman, Solinsky, Ritz, Torres, Solinsky, Tegencamp, Hunter, Scharsu?
It's a really good list. I would adjust the order slightly, but it's solid.
Hunter and Fisher both broke 4:00 in H.S. and Fernandez did not. German's 1600/3200 double was insane as well as his 8:34 2-mile with 7:59 split. But that sub 4:00 is a special thing...
Hunter ran indoor 3k record, 3:57, etc
Rupp broke Lindgren's 5,000m record by 7 seconds.....13:37
Verzbicas 8:29!
Concur - I was lucky to run with Rudy for 1 X-country season at Hammond High in 1975. He was awesome to watch...
Futsum Zeinasellassie?
Is there a rule against attaching a helium balloon to yourself while running a road race?
Jakob Ingebrigtsen has a 1989 Ferrari 348 GTB and he's just put in paperwork to upgrade it
How rare is it to run a sub 5 minute mile AND bench press 225?
Am I living in the twilight zone? The Boston Marathon weather was terrible!
Mark Coogan says that if you could only do 3 workouts as a 1500m runner you should do these
Move over Mark Coogan, Rojo and John Kellogg share their 3 favorite mile workouts