Trying to put Laura Muir's close in perspective. Has a woman ever closed a 3:58 race with a 57 last lap before?

Caster?

I don't know if anybody has run sub 4 with sub 58 last lap or close to that. Muir of course ran a big negative split in her 3:55 PB with ca. 1:45 for the last 700m and the last lap around 60.

But what I find actually more remarkable is that the first 6 all ran sub 4:00.5 with a sub 60 last lap, among them three with remarkable improvements into world class since last year. Nanyondo from 4:07 (granted she was a sub 2 800m runner already in 2014), Macdonald and Stafford from 4:03.

Qu Yunxia closed her 3:50 WR in 57.

Right?

Or maybe that was her first lap and she closed 60.

Aren’t you a track journalist? Shouldn’t you know these things?

1993 World Champs Liu Dong was 3:03.02 at the bell and she took off and ran a 57:48 last lap in a 4:00.50. They were 2:17.58 at 800m, so the last 700m was in sub 1:43. Muir's run was almost as impressive. Last lap:

https://youtu.be/AY3qHznwxB0

Shelby Houlihan closed USA's in 57.67 in traffic and in lane 2. It was only a 4:05 race but Shelby didn't even look like she started sprinting until the last 100m. Muir was all out the entire last lap, yet Shelby was so controlled. I bet Shelby could have closed in 55 if she pressed harder earlier and if she was all alone like Muir.

To me, Houlihan's finish was far more impressive given her circumstances - in a final (after running rounds) with a 5k the next day, running in lane 2 with traffic - and just how easy it looked. She wasn't even tired after the race. Anyone that watches the race video could see she cold have gone much faster that last lap. Muir deserves respect and compliments, she ran a great race but if Houlihan gets back in that kind of shape, she'll destroy Muir in 2020.

Link:

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/shelby-houlihan-wins-1500m-final-usatf-outdoor-championships

Splits:

https://results.usatf.org/2018Outdoors/

ajt wrote:

1993 World Champs Liu Dong was 3:03.02 at the bell and she took off and ran a 57:48 last lap in a 4:00.50. They were 2:17.58 at 800m, so the last 700m was in sub 1:43. Muir's run was almost as impressive. Last lap:

https://youtu.be/AY3qHznwxB0

Proof are natural children (not adopted).

It would be interesting to know how many elite T&F women from 1980's & 1990's were able to produce children naturally. I would assume rocket fuel makes women infertile. Doing a wikipedia search may just say, "One or two children." Could be adopted children.

The infamous Suzie Hamilton closed this slow Pre 1500 in 56.

https://www.runnerspace.com/video.php?do=view&member_id=4&video_id=8911

Why is this so amazing to you????

Sifan Hassan ran the equivalent of 5 seconds faster a week prior.

Here's another conspiracy theory after watching that race: could it be that the Chinese "women" were, in fact, clean, doing grey-area turtle blood drinking, but more than likely XY athletes?

Look at the size of the Chinese women compared to the field. It is striking. They are so much larger than all the other athletes.

The only thing destroying this theory is that all these Chinese runners had families and one baby in all articles I can find online, meaning they were not XY, just maybe outlier, big strong women with superior genetics.

I would clarify that Sonia O'Sullivan (IRE) has always stated she thought the Chinese were clean because as she said, "I was able to crush them" in races, so pretty interesting as one would think doping would help in three rounds of 1500m racing, yet China only won one medal in the 1500m with the two others being left behind.

To answer your question, yes. Kipyegon ran low 58s to close a 3:56 win in Shanghai, I believe during the 2016 season.

I think the reason you do not see too many times like this is because rarely does an athlete of the quality of Muir race such a soft field like that race in London without the intention of using it to specifically attack a world or national record attempt. Thus, either a) the star athlete goes for a really fast time from the gun and drops the otherwise weak field, making a historically fast last lap an impossibility or b) the race has several star athletes and those athletes cannot help but start to pick it up from 600 or 700m out, which also prevents a historically fast last lap.

If Genzebe Dibaba, Sifan Hassan, or Faith Kipyegon went through in 3:01 at the bell in an evenly paced slow race, I am guessing they could run a 57, too.

mooonshot wrote:

Here's another conspiracy theory after watching that race: could it be that the Chinese "women" were, in fact, clean, doing grey-area turtle blood drinking, but more than likely XY athletes?

Look at the size of the Chinese women compared to the field. It is striking. They are so much larger than all the other athletes.

The only thing destroying this theory is that all these Chinese runners had families and one baby in all articles I can find online, meaning they were not XY, just maybe outlier, big strong women with superior genetics.

I honestly don’t think they could be XY. Part of Coach Ma’s training included making the women look completely unattractive. He made them all cut their hair short and they couldn’t have boyfriends or wear makeup or watch TV etc. He basically controlled their lives and was open about saying that he didn’t let any of them have a social life at all. He didn’t even allow them to see their families. Liu Dong who won in this video was kicked off the team after she refused to cut her hair (you can see it in the video) and she had a boyfriend. Ma actually through all her stuff out of a window on to a curb and kicked her out.

mooonshot wrote:

Here's another conspiracy theory after watching that race: could it be that the Chinese "women" were, in fact, clean, doing grey-area turtle blood drinking, but more than likely XY athletes?

There’s no way for us to ever know for sure but I also think this is highly unlikely. Severa of Ma’s later athletes tested positive for drugs and only one of these women looks ‘strong’ which could also be attributed to doping. On top of that, his athletes have gone on record to state that they did indeed dope.

Pulitzer Committee wrote:

Aren’t you a track journalist? Shouldn’t you know these things?

You must be new here. The guys that run this site are about 2 steps behind what is going on.

you dont see too many good chinese runners these days.

Not even close wrote:

Pulitzer Committee wrote:

Aren’t you a track journalist? Shouldn’t you know these things?

You must be new here. The guys that run this site are about 2 steps behind what is going on.

Never fails, brojos make a thread, the little dogs come around

mooonshot wrote:

Here's another conspiracy theory after watching that race: could it be that the Chinese "women" were, in fact, clean, doing grey-area turtle blood drinking, but more than likely XY athletes?

I don't think so. Looking at some sites in chinese it looks like 3:50 runner Qu Yunxia has children.

jamin wrote:

Why is this so amazing to you????

Sifan Hassan ran the equivalent of 5 seconds faster a week prior.

And her last lap was 60 flat. Yes there is a big difference between 3:58 for 1500 and 4:12 in the mile but there also is a huge difference between 57 and 60 for the last lap.