Women's Swimming is the only endurance sport where you get old at an extremely young age.

You are living in a fantasy world. You are just making things up and projecting your thoughts, ideas, scenarios and theories on her. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are not her doctor and have no idea how it impacted her swimming. Dude, fantasy land. Come back to reality.

Imaginary world wrote:

You are living in a fantasy world. You are just making things up and projecting your thoughts, ideas, scenarios and theories on her. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are not her doctor and have no idea how it impacted her swimming. Dude, fantasy land. Come back to reality.

Speculation would be a better description than fantasy.

I have every idea what I’m talking about. Applying it to Franklin is what is uncertain and speculative. It doesn’t take a medical license to recognize signs and symptoms, and to observe performance in the pool and behavior outside the pool.

I absolutely admit to this being speculation as far as Franklin is concerned, I don’t know her personally.

As long as we’re talking about women’s swimming, in case people don’t know, Amanda Beard wrote the book “In The Water They Can’t See You Cry”, and described her own personal odyssey.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Imaginary world wrote:

You are living in a fantasy world. You are just making things up and projecting your thoughts, ideas, scenarios and theories on her. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are not her doctor and have no idea how it impacted her swimming. Dude, fantasy land. Come back to reality.

Speculation would be a better description than fantasy.

I have every idea what I’m talking about. Applying it to Franklin is what is uncertain and speculative. It doesn’t take a medical license to recognize signs and symptoms, and to observe performance in the pool and behavior outside the pool.

I absolutely admit to this being speculation as far as Franklin is concerned, I don’t know her personally.

Ok fine. What you are saying is total, complete, utter, 100% speculation with zero first hand knowledge of the person, swimming at the world class level (and probably swimming at any level) or basically anything relating to the subject at hand. You don't know anything about her "signs and symptoms" outside of a few social media posts and an off interview here or there, which means next to nothing. You don't know anything about the specifics of her medical situation. So, in a way I think it might be accurate to say that you are living in a fantasy land by writing such a lengthily post with such specific ideas and conclusions based on essentially nothing.

I can make up all kinds of fiction that is plausible. It doesn't mean anything in reality though.

The thing they don't discuss much is the time investment swimming takes.

You have to do hours upon hours in the pool. At some point many swimmers simply get tired of the grind.

It use to be swimmers were done after just a couple years out of college, now that they can make somewhat of a living at it, they are swimming longer...

Kind of true, and kind of not. Lots of info is public, of course it is incomplete.

About world class swimming I know much. Cousin was world class as we were coming up, we were tight. He became a coach. Uncle was world class. Friend is a very-high-level coach and ex-national athlete. I know more than you would think.

Subject at hand: highly-accomplished female swimmer/athlete careers and trajectory. I have close personal firsthand experience, and have been immersed in the subject for decades, to the point where I find myself wondering how in the heck I got here.

Ultimately you are correct, my conclusions about Franklin are based on not much...as you said, “essentially nothing”. I thought I had clarified that, but apparently you need to hear it in your own words so ok, there it is.

This is a place where I offer my thoughts, and I don’t try to sell them as fact. Your contribution seems to have been to try to cut me down to size by expanding your criticism beyond my speculation specifically about Franklin, which I don’t accept. I have admitted that I don’t know Franklin and am only speculating—you might do the same and admit that you don’t know me and are only speculating about what I know and don’t know.

Pot, meet kettle.

here is the thing wrote:

The thing they don't discuss much is the time investment swimming takes.

You have to do hours upon hours in the pool. At some point many swimmers simply get tired of the grind.

It use to be swimmers were done after just a couple years out of college, now that they can make somewhat of a living at it, they are swimming longer...

I just think biological changes are more of factor than training. Training does take its toll, but the drastic changes that a women's body go through from the ages of 16-22 are immense. For one they are lighter when they are younger, because the mass is more lean than fat.

Plus Male Swimmers don't have the same decrease, and they experience the same amount of intense training. So not only are they able to gain and hold on to more lean mass, they don't experience the early stage or stages of burnout. That was also part of the study. So if it were just a mere thing of being burned out, then men would be affected as well, because they endure the same amount of stress and high level training.

I agree with the study, the biological make up and the progression of the biological make-up is the major difference.

Now if more female swimmers were to adopt a high level muscle building program, to keep fat down ,like Dana Torres did, and keep their testosterone levels up, then I could see those numbers changing. Now there will always be a few outliers like Torres, but for the most part, compared to men, they lose speed once they hit 22 -24 off standard elite swim training . Their top level swimming will mostly happen in their teens.

And due to the study, for those women who are able to maintain speed or even get faster way off in their 20s, etc, then the suspicion of doping wouldn't be far from the mind See: East German female swimmers of the 1970s. Doping in swimming is huge, but since no one really follows the sport, it's way under the radar. .... Especially with the women. Diana Taurasi, Uconn's biggest star of all time, and at the time, was one of the WNBA's biggest star ( Candace Park ), tested positive for PEDs, and not one gave a crap. In swimming, it probably wouldn't even make the news ( unless it were Katie).

1. It's swimming. 2. It's a woman.

If a woman doped in a sport that no one watches , and she tested positive, and it was reported, but the public didn't react, did it really happen? lol

no money in swimming. After college, you have to get a job, you don't have the time to swim 10,000 meters/day, so you get slower. Back-of-the-pack runners at nationals have sponsors, make prize money, maintain a full training schedule and can still hold down full-time jobs. Back-of-the-pack swimmers at nationals have no sponsors, no prize money, and cannot maintain a full training schedule.

The exceptions like Dara Torres and Michael Phelps are because they are rich enough to not have to work so they can train full-time.

So true.

A friend is a multiple masters WR-holder, went 23.31 at age 40 in the 50 free—and that took real dedication on his part. He was the oldest-ever guy to qualify for trials, I believe...and of course got smoked. He had a life at the time, but to shave off a second would have meant total commitment, which of course was out of the question for someone who wasn’t going to make the final.

Every one of the non-final swimmers at nats has made that massive commitment, it is incredible. Nats is quite the experience, US trials maybe at one point the deepest meet in the world.

random person # wrote:

Also it was extremely common for us to have overtraining like symptoms, such as losing our periods (even at way higher BMIs than most endurance sports), getting sick all the time, and never getting enough sleep because you had to wake up every day and get in the pool by 5:30 am after staying up all night doing homework.

Plus being in the contaminated pool water, pee, crap, chlorine and various other toxic chemicals.

That's the #1 reason I don't swim in retirement, though I would otherwise do so.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

As long as we’re talking about women’s swimming, in case people don’t know, Amanda Beard wrote the book “In The Water They Can’t See You Cry”, and described her own personal odyssey.

As long as we are talking about books, "Gold in the Water" while not about women's swimming is a better swimming book.

Mikeh33 wrote:

Swim coach talking here, and you are wrong. Katie was not beaten because she is old, she was beaten because her coaches at Stanford misjudged her taper. Ledecky went faster at a meet just a couple of months ago.

Ledecky was definitely off for some reason, but not to do with her age.

One major thing, the last 100 meters Ariarne Titmus was swimming absolutely straight like an arrow.

Conversely, Katie Ledecky was wobbling back and forth side to side, which must have created a huge drag.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

It doesn’t take a medical license to recognize signs and symptoms, and to observe performance in the pool and behavior outside the pool.

I recognize that you're a clueless old has-been who's babbling nonsensically.

I think that Chasing Water was the best book. Swimming from a different perspective.

Agree with the poster who said pools are disgusting, most of them are. I will only swim in certain pools, ones that circulate lake or sea water. Wife swims all the time, with a team. The pool there is pretty decent, no kids, UV and ozone.

Ledecky has withdrawn from the 200 and 1500 final due to illness. She is not yet “done”, IMO.

Others have withdrawn from other events, too.

Sarah Sjostrom , 25 , loses to a 19 year old, which denied her 5 straight championship titles.

I’m looking at all these teen females just blaze through the water. Teens come on hard in gymnastics and swimming.

My favorite activity is swimming... Running is just more of passion. Did some tris, but hated the bike transport and set up all the time.

Just like with running events, I prefer watching the women over the men in swimming.

Hmm, why are women more appreciated in gymnastics, swimming and running than any other sport? I can honestly say that no one gives 2 focks about men’s gymnastics.

Great post

wejo wrote:

Great post

This thread is about women, not men.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

OLD SMTC SOB wrote:

Ledeky will be fine, she's as tough as nails and will recover from this. No one wins 100% of the time.

This.

Hey SOB, good on you...but a swim/running crossover? What did you run, 800m?

800/1500/mile.

interesting thread. I remember the US's [and everyone elses] all-time greats [Spitz/Gaines/et all] basically were non-professional college athletes. There simply wasnt a post-collegiate sponsorship/$$ train for professional swimmers. It was even worse for women.

Fast forward 30 years and little has changed outside the top 3-5 across all events. You've got room for a phelps, a ledecky, and maybe a Lochte with everyone else scratching a living together.

It's not that women age out of swimming, its that it isnt economically viable --Dara Torres was mentioned already, of course sprinters tend to hang on a bit longer in this sport as opposed to others. Guys like Ian Thorpe tried to come back in his early 30s and couldnt quite make it. Spitz was about 2s off of his PB in the 100 fly when he tried to come back at 40. So theres some variance. Age matters a bit but certainly 20s is not too old. Janet Evans tried to come back and was awfully close in the 800 at the trials in 2012 for instance, in-season competition suggested she only needed to come up with about :15s in an 800 which isnt a ton [but it didnt show at the trials, bad race]

The most important factor is $$$/opportunity cost of time. For female swimmers especially there arent a lot of opportunities past age 25 and its just not worth postponing family/career/education/etc.

So I disagree with this post---especially because female sprinters can [and do] continue to improve past the ages mentioned here. For the more endurance-y related races I do tend to agree that the mid 20s are about ideal, however. But that doesnt mean teenagers are going to always dominate like they do in gymnastics. I think in swimming its because most women that would be their competition have exited the sport for other reasons already [time//$$$]