There is no “genetic superiority” when it comes to distance running. Literally everyone sub 2:09 is just doping.

slowwer wrote:

jacksprat wrote:

I'll simplify the question, why do YOU think Kenyans cheat more than anyone else if they have the 'genetic gifts' to which you allude. I you don't have an opinion, that's fine, I don't really care.

Why do you adress this question to me? I don't know how many Kenyan runners cheat. I don't know how this number compares to them of the other leading nations.

I havn't read any papers to the subject, I just can speculate.

Kenya has much more top class and 2nd tier runners than probably any other nation on earth. If there is the opportunity (lax testing until resently) some will use it. To reach the top even in your own country is extremely hard in Kenya. The incentive (a lot of money) is extremely high. Probably nobody on earth cares about a Kenyan 1:46 800m runner, sub 1:45 and you will get good opportunities.

Do they have less morality than Europeans? Maybe, maybe not. But I doubt it, just look at the Tour de France. Look at all the European managers and doctors who are behind such trends.

These are just some thoughts. But - again - why are you asking me this?

Armstronglivs wrote:

slowwer wrote:

Why do you adress this question to me? I don't know how many Kenyan runners cheat. I don't know how this number compares to them of the other leading nations.

I havn't read any papers to the subject, I just can speculate.

Kenya has much more top class and 2nd tier runners than probably any other nation on earth. If there is the opportunity (lax testing until resently) some will use it. To reach the top even in your own country is extremely hard in Kenya. The incentive (a lot of money) is extremely high. Probably nobody on earth cares about a Kenyan 1:46 800m runner, sub 1:45 and you will get good opportunities.

Do they have less morality than Europeans? Maybe, maybe not. But I doubt it, just look at the Tour de France. Look at all the European managers and doctors who are behind such trends.

These are just some thoughts. But - again - why are you asking me this?

You have argued post after post that Kenyan runners are the best in the world yet you cannot answer the direct question - so why do they dope like it's a disease? You cannot explain it but the short answer is because they always have. Their "success" that you trumpet is built on it.

slowwer wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

You have argued post after post that Kenyan runners are the best in the world yet you cannot answer the direct question - so why do they dope like it's a disease? You cannot explain it but the short answer is because they always have. Their "success" that you trumpet is built on it.

I have never argued that Kenyan runners are "the best in the world".

On average, Kenya is the most successful nation in distance running, yes. This is a fact. And Kenya was already the most successful nation in the period 1964 - 1979 (men, track distances, not in depth - it was the USA).

You have called this nonsense, over and over again. You challenged it with

- names of single athletes from various nations (!!)

- performances from outside this time frame (!!!)

- with changing extremely correct numbers (2 world records from Kenyans, when 10 is correct and more) (!!!!)

- just calling correct statistics to be nonsense without any argument why (!!)

- completely ignoring correct and extreme meaningful statistics (!)

- comparing individual athletes (on a most mentally ill basis) (!!)

- statements like: Kenyans have regularly lost, are slow... (despite any fact which says the opposite) (!!!)

You have not challenged the claim that Kenya was most successful nation with the only rational argumentation: nation x was more successful because they have won... - absolutely NOTHING.

The only question to this subject is: what's the reason for this success? Only doping? If you think so, how can you justify that? Because today many Kenyans are tested positive?

Armstronglivs wrote:

slowwer wrote:

I have never argued that Kenyan runners are "the best in the world".

On average, Kenya is the most successful nation in distance running, yes. This is a fact. And Kenya was already the most successful nation in the period 1964 - 1979 (men, track distances, not in depth - it was the USA).

You have called this nonsense, over and over again. You challenged it with

- names of single athletes from various nations (!!)

- performances from outside this time frame (!!!)

- with changing extremely correct numbers (2 world records from Kenyans, when 10 is correct and more) (!!!!)

- just calling correct statistics to be nonsense without any argument why (!!)

- completely ignoring correct and extreme meaningful statistics (!)

- comparing individual athletes (on a most mentally ill basis) (!!)

- statements like: Kenyans have regularly lost, are slow... (despite any fact which says the opposite) (!!!)

You have not challenged the claim that Kenya was most successful nation with the only rational argumentation: nation x was more successful because they have won... - absolutely NOTHING.

The only question to this subject is: what's the reason for this success? Only doping? If you think so, how can you justify that? Because today many Kenyans are tested positive?

Your finger is stuck on the exclamation key. Again, you completely avoid the question of why do so many Kenyan runners feel the need to dope when you say they have been enormously successful without it.

slowwer wrote:

Again "they".

I have said it several times to you (but it's like talking to a cheetah, same brain capacity - despite suspected genetical differences also to you).

If I have said that Kenya was extremely successful or not is completely irrelevant: Kenya WAS extremely successful. A fact.

Why do athletes from such an successful nation (in the past, but for sure also today) dope? It can be told to you ten times, you would not grasp it: to run faster? I'm pretty sure that's their intention. I don't think they do it to improve their math skills. Or their life expectancy. Or their ethics. Or their look.

Running faster - that's the goal, I have little doubt about this.

But your reasoning here is on the same level than in dozens of other threads:

- any top athlete dopes

- Kenyans are only successful because of doping (despite the fact all top athletes dope)

- New Zealanders at the top don't dope (despite the fact all top athletes dope)

- Kenyans are not successful at all

It's really some remarkable performance which you did in this whole thread: Coevett just looks like some average idiot - 13.16 > 13.24 (both faster than the electronic world record at the time). I could have been done this whole discussion with a cheetah, it would have been just as enlightening.

Coevett wrote:

slowwer wrote:

Again "they".

I have said it several times to you (but it's like talking to a cheetah, same brain capacity - despite suspected genetical differences also to you).

If I have said that Kenya was extremely successful or not is completely irrelevant: Kenya WAS extremely successful. A fact.

Why do athletes from such an successful nation (in the past, but for sure also today) dope? It can be told to you ten times, you would not grasp it: to run faster? I'm pretty sure that's their intention. I don't think they do it to improve their math skills. Or their life expectancy. Or their ethics. Or their look.

Running faster - that's the goal, I have little doubt about this.

But your reasoning here is on the same level than in dozens of other threads:

- any top athlete dopes

- Kenyans are only successful because of doping (despite the fact all top athletes dope)

- New Zealanders at the top don't dope (despite the fact all top athletes dope)

- Kenyans are not successful at all

It's really some remarkable performance which you did in this whole thread: Coevett just looks like some average idiot - 13.16 > 13.24 (both faster than the electronic world record at the time). I could have been done this whole discussion with a cheetah, it would have been just as enlightening.

In your scientific raciat world view, do Kenyan's cheetah genes mean they have the brain capacity of cheetahs, or just the running speed of cheetahs?

slowwer wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Your finger is stuck on the exclamation key. Again, you completely avoid the question of why do so many Kenyan runners feel the need to dope when you say they have been enormously successful without it.

Again "they".

I have said it several times to you (but it's like talking to a cheetah, same brain capacity - despite suspected genetical differences also to you).

If I have said that Kenya was extremely successful or not is completely irrelevant: Kenya WAS extremely successful. A fact.

Why do athletes from such an successful nation (in the past, but for sure also today) dope? It can be told to you ten times, you would not grasp it: to run faster? I'm pretty sure that's their intention. I don't think they do it to improve their math skills. Or their life expectancy. Or their ethics. Or their look.

Running faster - that's the goal, I have little doubt about this.

But your reasoning here is on the same level than in dozens of other threads:

- any top athlete dopes

- Kenyans are only successful because of doping (despite the fact all top athletes dope)

- New Zealanders at the top don't dope (despite the fact all top athletes dope)

- Kenyans are not successful at all

It's really some remarkable performance which you did in this whole thread: Coevett just looks like some average idiot - 13.16 > 13.24 (both faster than the electronic world record at the time). I could have been done this whole discussion with a cheetah, it would have been just as enlightening.

Armstronglivs wrote:

slowwer wrote:

Again "they".

I have said it several times to you (but it's like talking to a cheetah, same brain capacity - despite suspected genetical differences also to you).

If I have said that Kenya was extremely successful or not is completely irrelevant: Kenya WAS extremely successful. A fact.

Why do athletes from such an successful nation (in the past, but for sure also today) dope? It can be told to you ten times, you would not grasp it: to run faster? I'm pretty sure that's their intention. I don't think they do it to improve their math skills. Or their life expectancy. Or their ethics. Or their look.

Running faster - that's the goal, I have little doubt about this.

But your reasoning here is on the same level than in dozens of other threads:

- any top athlete dopes

- Kenyans are only successful because of doping (despite the fact all top athletes dope)

- New Zealanders at the top don't dope (despite the fact all top athletes dope)

- Kenyans are not successful at all

It's really some remarkable performance which you did in this whole thread: Coevett just looks like some average idiot - 13.16 > 13.24 (both faster than the electronic world record at the time). I could have been done this whole discussion with a cheetah, it would have been just as enlightening.

Your explanation for why Kenyans dope:

"Running faster - that's the goal, I have little doubt about this."(quote)

Since no one dopes to run slower you have at least mastered that part of the equation. But since you say Kenyans dope to "run faster" that shows they have always doped since the late '60's and '70's, because their motivation will always have been to run faster. That's how you win. So they have doped for decades.