There is no “genetic superiority” when it comes to distance running. Literally everyone sub 2:09 is just doping.

Training Advice/Discussion Marathon

Page 63 of 70

#1241

1 week ago 01/25/2023 4:16pm EST

jacksprat wrote:
I'll simplify the question, why do YOU think Kenyans cheat more than anyone else if they have the 'genetic gifts' to which you allude. I you don't have an opinion, that's fine, I don't really care.

Why do you adress this question to me? I don't know how many Kenyan runners cheat. I don't know how this number compares to them of the other leading nations.

I havn't read any papers to the subject, I just can speculate.

Kenya has much more top class and 2nd tier runners than probably any other nation on earth. If there is the opportunity (lax testing until resently) some will use it. To reach the top even in your own country is extremely hard in Kenya. The incentive (a lot of money) is extremely high. Probably nobody on earth cares about a Kenyan 1:46 800m runner, sub 1:45 and you will get good opportunities.

Do they have less morality than Europeans? Maybe, maybe not. But I doubt it, just look at the Tour de France. Look at all the European managers and doctors who are behind such trends.

These are just some thoughts. But - again - why are you asking me this?

#1242

1 week ago 01/25/2023 4:27pm EST

re: Coevett

Coevett wrote:
slowwer wrote:
72 Olympic Games - Bronze
74 Commonwealth Games - Silver
76 Olympic Games - boycott, his best season
78 Commonwealth Games - Gold
80 Olympic Games - boycott
After Montreal Boit has won the best race of the season after the Olympics, in Zürich against Van Damme, Wohlhuter, Susanj, Ovett
His seasons best was just 0.07 seconds slower than Juantorena's Montreal world record. For sure Boit could have won in Montreal. You will deny this again, exposing yourself one more time. And not the last time - that's good.
@Rekrunner - Ovett and Boit raced one week after Montreal over 800m amd Ovett won. The Zurich race was Ovett's 5th race in 8 days and 12th in less than a month. He was exhausted. Boit was fresh, unlike Ovett (and Van Damme). It's unlikely Boit would have medalled in Montreal, let alone be a realistic threat for gold at either distance.

Boit was almost two seconds faster than Ovet, no contest while both in top form.

It probably would have been an epic duel Boit-Juantorena. Boit - not running in Montreal - reached his top form at the big European meetings a few weeks later. For sure he was on a different level than Ovett.

#1243

1 week ago 01/25/2023 4:45pm EST

re: slowwer

slowwer wrote:
Coevett wrote:
@Rekrunner - Ovett and Boit raced one week after Montreal over 800m amd Ovett won. The Zurich race was Ovett's 5th race in 8 days and 12th in less than a month. He was exhausted. Boit was fresh, unlike Ovett (and Van Damme). It's unlikely Boit would have medalled in Montreal, let alone be a realistic threat for gold at either distance.
Boit was almost two seconds faster than Ovet, no contest while both in top form.
It probably would have been an epic duel Boit-Juantorena. Boit - not running in Montreal - reached his top form at the big European meetings a few weeks later. For sure he was on a different level than Ovett.

Fantasy world time again. Ovett beat Boit the week after Montreal. He then lost to him by a second,.and then by 0.18s over 1000m. Even in the Zurich race he did not lose by nearly 2 seconds, unless 1.6s is nearly 2 seconds when Ovett loses to Boit, but 1.86 difference between Coe's and Boit's pbs is not according to you nearly 2 seconds.

Ovett peaked for Montreal, can you grasp that? He was exhausted by the time of Zurich.

#1244

1 week ago 01/25/2023 5:11pm EST

re: Coevett

Coevett wrote:
slowwer wrote:
Boit was almost two seconds faster than Ovet, no contest while both in top form.
It probably would have been an epic duel Boit-Juantorena. Boit - not running in Montreal - reached his top form at the big European meetings a few weeks later. For sure he was on a different level than Ovett.
Fantasy world time again. Ovett beat Boit the week after Montreal. He then lost to him by a second,.and then by 0.18s over 1000m. Even in the Zurich race he did not lose by nearly 2 seconds, unless 1.6s is nearly 2 seconds when Ovett loses to Boit, but 1.86 difference between Coe's and Boit's pbs is not according to you nearly 2 seconds.
Ovett peaked for Montreal, can you grasp that? He was exhausted by the time of Zurich.

1:43.57 to 1:45.44 - 1.87s, yes, I call this almost 2 seconds. And this while Boit has to deal with the boycott.

I have never compared Boit's and Coe's PBs - 1.84s, yes, this also can be called almost 2 seconds.

I compared the NRs of Kenya and Great Britain at the end of the 1970s - 1.24s, no, that's not almost 2 seconds.

Boit obviously was on a different level than Ovett in 76 over the 800., no need to debate this.

Boit probably would not have medaled... astonishing what bias, hate and a damaged brain can do with a human(?).

#1245

1 week ago 01/26/2023 3:51am EST

re: slowwer

slowwer wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
"The genes of a cheetah might differ from yours". Might? You appear unsure about that but in any case you are seeking to compare a cheetah's genes with a human - which you then deny you are doing. Are you like Gollum - in an argument with yourself? In any case, you appear profoundly disturbed.
I thought the adressat to be a Coevett (not sure which species this is), this maybe was wrong, I'm uncertain about it.
Yes, the genes of a cheetah are different from the ones of a human. Even different from the ones of an Armstrong. And different human ethnicities also differ in their genes - you don't like it?
What's your f*'*'ng problem with genes?

I don't have a problem with genes. But you compared those of a cheetah with a human and then denied it. You can't keep track of your own lies.

#1246

1 week ago 01/26/2023 3:55am EST

re: slowwer

slowwer wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
So if people "cheat to gain an advantage" we see from the Kenyan preponderance of cheating that they do way more of that than anyone else in distance running. They would have sought to gain such an advantage as soon as they entered the sport so we can safely conclude they have always cheated. Thanks for helping to sort that out.
Your conclusion is not valid, obviously.
Who are "they"?

I'm not surprised you need lessons in English. Not only are you the thickest poster I have encountered here, you are also illiterate.

#1247

1 week ago 01/26/2023 4:28am EST

re: slowwer

slowwer wrote:
jacksprat wrote:
I'll simplify the question, why do YOU think Kenyans cheat more than anyone else if they have the 'genetic gifts' to which you allude. I you don't have an opinion, that's fine, I don't really care.
Why do you adress this question to me? I don't know how many Kenyan runners cheat. I don't know how this number compares to them of the other leading nations.
I havn't read any papers to the subject, I just can speculate.
Kenya has much more top class and 2nd tier runners than probably any other nation on earth. If there is the opportunity (lax testing until resently) some will use it. To reach the top even in your own country is extremely hard in Kenya. The incentive (a lot of money) is extremely high. Probably nobody on earth cares about a Kenyan 1:46 800m runner, sub 1:45 and you will get good opportunities.
Do they have less morality than Europeans? Maybe, maybe not. But I doubt it, just look at the Tour de France. Look at all the European managers and doctors who are behind such trends.
These are just some thoughts. But - again - why are you asking me this?

You have argued post after post that Kenyan runners are the best in the world yet you cannot answer the direct question - so why do they dope like it's a disease? You cannot explain it but the short answer is because they always have. Their "success" that you trumpet is built on it.

#1248

1 week ago 01/26/2023 11:16am EST

re: Armstronglivs

Another "naturally talented" Kenyan distance runner (a half marathon champion) has just been busted. The farce never ends.

#1249

1 week ago 01/27/2023 8:44am EST

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
slowwer wrote:
I thought the adressat to be a Coevett (not sure which species this is), this maybe was wrong, I'm uncertain about it.
Yes, the genes of a cheetah are different from the ones of a human. Even different from the ones of an Armstrong. And different human ethnicities also differ in their genes - you don't like it?
What's your f*'*'ng problem with genes?
I don't have a problem with genes. But you compared those of a cheetah with a human and then denied it. You can't keep track of your own lies.

I havn't compared what you claim I did. Don't you know what COMPARING means? Obviously not.

The genes of a cheetah are different from the ones of a coevett - at least I think so. Your mad friend obviously has a big problem wit this , mentioning "cheetah genes" of Kenyans now in other threads. Lot of evidence that he is mentally ill.

#1250

1 week ago 01/27/2023 8:52am EST

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
So if people "cheat to gain an advantage" we see from the Kenyan preponderance of cheating that they do way more of that than anyone else in distance running. They would have sought to gain such an advantage as soon as they entered the sport so we can safely conclude they have always cheated. Thanks for helping to sort that out.
slowwer wrote:
Your conclusion is not valid, obviously.
Who are "they"?
I'm not surprised you need lessons in English. Not only are you the thickest poster I have encountered here, you are also illiterate.

The rate of dopers is higher in Kenya than in other countries, that's what you probably wanted to say. "They" (the Kenyans) includes hundreds or even thousands of individuals, some of them dope, some don't.

#1251

1 week ago 01/27/2023 9:13am EST

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
slowwer wrote:
Why do you adress this question to me? I don't know how many Kenyan runners cheat. I don't know how this number compares to them of the other leading nations.
I havn't read any papers to the subject, I just can speculate.
Kenya has much more top class and 2nd tier runners than probably any other nation on earth. If there is the opportunity (lax testing until resently) some will use it. To reach the top even in your own country is extremely hard in Kenya. The incentive (a lot of money) is extremely high. Probably nobody on earth cares about a Kenyan 1:46 800m runner, sub 1:45 and you will get good opportunities.
Do they have less morality than Europeans? Maybe, maybe not. But I doubt it, just look at the Tour de France. Look at all the European managers and doctors who are behind such trends.
These are just some thoughts. But - again - why are you asking me this?
You have argued post after post that Kenyan runners are the best in the world yet you cannot answer the direct question - so why do they dope like it's a disease? You cannot explain it but the short answer is because they always have. Their "success" that you trumpet is built on it.

I have never argued that Kenyan runners are "the best in the world".

On average, Kenya is the most successful nation in distance running, yes. This is a fact. And Kenya was already the most successful nation in the period 1964 - 1979 (men, track distances, not in depth - it was the USA).

You have called this nonsense, over and over again. You challenged it with

- names of single athletes from various nations (!!)

- performances from outside this time frame (!!!)

- with changing extremely correct numbers (2 world records from Kenyans, when 10 is correct and more) (!!!!)

- just calling correct statistics to be nonsense without any argument why (!!)

- completely ignoring correct and extreme meaningful statistics (!)

- comparing individual athletes (on a most mentally ill basis) (!!)

- statements like: Kenyans have regularly lost, are slow... (despite any fact which says the opposite) (!!!)

You have not challenged the claim that Kenya was most successful nation with the only rational argumentation: nation x was more successful because they have won... - absolutely NOTHING.

The only question to this subject is: what's the reason for this success? Only doping? If you think so, how can you justify that? Because today many Kenyans are tested positive?

#1252

1 week ago 01/27/2023 12:07pm EST

re: slowwer

slowwer wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
I don't have a problem with genes. But you compared those of a cheetah with a human and then denied it. You can't keep track of your own lies.
I havn't compared what you claim I did. Don't you know what COMPARING means? Obviously not.
The genes of a cheetah are different from the ones of a coevett - at least I think so. Your mad friend obviously has a big problem wit this , mentioning "cheetah genes" of Kenyans now in other threads. Lot of evidence that he is mentally ill.

Since you can't recall your own comments, let me refresh your memory.

"Genetics are obviously important, the genes of a cheetah might differ from yours."(quote)

Speaking of evidence of mental illness.

#1253

1 week ago 01/27/2023 12:15pm EST

re: slowwer

slowwer wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You have argued post after post that Kenyan runners are the best in the world yet you cannot answer the direct question - so why do they dope like it's a disease? You cannot explain it but the short answer is because they always have. Their "success" that you trumpet is built on it.
I have never argued that Kenyan runners are "the best in the world".
On average, Kenya is the most successful nation in distance running, yes. This is a fact. And Kenya was already the most successful nation in the period 1964 - 1979 (men, track distances, not in depth - it was the USA).
You have called this nonsense, over and over again. You challenged it with
- names of single athletes from various nations (!!)
- performances from outside this time frame (!!!)
- with changing extremely correct numbers (2 world records from Kenyans, when 10 is correct and more) (!!!!)
- just calling correct statistics to be nonsense without any argument why (!!)
- completely ignoring correct and extreme meaningful statistics (!)
- comparing individual athletes (on a most mentally ill basis) (!!)
- statements like: Kenyans have regularly lost, are slow... (despite any fact which says the opposite) (!!!)
You have not challenged the claim that Kenya was most successful nation with the only rational argumentation: nation x was more successful because they have won... - absolutely NOTHING.
The only question to this subject is: what's the reason for this success? Only doping? If you think so, how can you justify that? Because today many Kenyans are tested positive?

Your finger is stuck on the exclamation key. Again, you completely avoid the question of why do so many Kenyan runners feel the need to dope when you say they have been enormously successful without it.

This post was edited 1 week ago by Armstronglivs.

#1254

1 week ago 01/27/2023 12:39pm EST

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
slowwer wrote:
I havn't compared what you claim I did. Don't you know what COMPARING means? Obviously not.
The genes of a cheetah are different from the ones of a coevett - at least I think so. Your mad friend obviously has a big problem wit this , mentioning "cheetah genes" of Kenyans now in other threads. Lot of evidence that he is mentally ill.
Since you can't recall your own comments, let me refresh your memory.
"Genetics are obviously important, the genes of a cheetah might differ from yours."(quote)
Speaking of evidence of mental illness.

You obviously don't know what comparing means. This statement, cheetah and coevett have different genes, seems to be very important to you.

#1255

1 week ago 01/27/2023 1:12pm EST

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
slowwer wrote:
I have never argued that Kenyan runners are "the best in the world".
On average, Kenya is the most successful nation in distance running, yes. This is a fact. And Kenya was already the most successful nation in the period 1964 - 1979 (men, track distances, not in depth - it was the USA).
You have called this nonsense, over and over again. You challenged it with
- names of single athletes from various nations (!!)
- performances from outside this time frame (!!!)
- with changing extremely correct numbers (2 world records from Kenyans, when 10 is correct and more) (!!!!)
- just calling correct statistics to be nonsense without any argument why (!!)
- completely ignoring correct and extreme meaningful statistics (!)
- comparing individual athletes (on a most mentally ill basis) (!!)
- statements like: Kenyans have regularly lost, are slow... (despite any fact which says the opposite) (!!!)
You have not challenged the claim that Kenya was most successful nation with the only rational argumentation: nation x was more successful because they have won... - absolutely NOTHING.
The only question to this subject is: what's the reason for this success? Only doping? If you think so, how can you justify that? Because today many Kenyans are tested positive?
Your finger is stuck on the exclamation key. Again, you completely avoid the question of why do so many Kenyan runners feel the need to dope when you say they have been enormously successful without it.

Again "they".

I have said it several times to you (but it's like talking to a cheetah, same brain capacity - despite suspected genetical differences also to you).

If I have said that Kenya was extremely successful or not is completely irrelevant: Kenya WAS extremely successful. A fact.

Why do athletes from such an successful nation (in the past, but for sure also today) dope? It can be told to you ten times, you would not grasp it: to run faster? I'm pretty sure that's their intention. I don't think they do it to improve their math skills. Or their life expectancy. Or their ethics. Or their look.

Running faster - that's the goal, I have little doubt about this.

But your reasoning here is on the same level than in dozens of other threads:

- any top athlete dopes

- Kenyans are only successful because of doping (despite the fact all top athletes dope)

- New Zealanders at the top don't dope (despite the fact all top athletes dope)

- Kenyans are not successful at all

It's really some remarkable performance which you did in this whole thread: Coevett just looks like some average idiot - 13.16 > 13.24 (both faster than the electronic world record at the time). I could have been done this whole discussion with a cheetah, it would have been just as enlightening.

#1256

1 week ago 01/27/2023 3:06pm EST

re: slowwer

slowwer wrote:
Again "they".
I have said it several times to you (but it's like talking to a cheetah, same brain capacity - despite suspected genetical differences also to you).
If I have said that Kenya was extremely successful or not is completely irrelevant: Kenya WAS extremely successful. A fact.
Why do athletes from such an successful nation (in the past, but for sure also today) dope? It can be told to you ten times, you would not grasp it: to run faster? I'm pretty sure that's their intention. I don't think they do it to improve their math skills. Or their life expectancy. Or their ethics. Or their look.
Running faster - that's the goal, I have little doubt about this.
But your reasoning here is on the same level than in dozens of other threads:
- any top athlete dopes
- Kenyans are only successful because of doping (despite the fact all top athletes dope)
- New Zealanders at the top don't dope (despite the fact all top athletes dope)
- Kenyans are not successful at all
It's really some remarkable performance which you did in this whole thread: Coevett just looks like some average idiot - 13.16 > 13.24 (both faster than the electronic world record at the time). I could have been done this whole discussion with a cheetah, it would have been just as enlightening.

In your scientific raciat world view, do Kenyan's cheetah genes mean they have the brain capacity of cheetahs, or just the running speed of cheetahs?

#1257

1 week ago 01/27/2023 3:31pm EST

re: Coevett

Coevett wrote:
slowwer wrote:
Again "they".
I have said it several times to you (but it's like talking to a cheetah, same brain capacity - despite suspected genetical differences also to you).
If I have said that Kenya was extremely successful or not is completely irrelevant: Kenya WAS extremely successful. A fact.
Why do athletes from such an successful nation (in the past, but for sure also today) dope? It can be told to you ten times, you would not grasp it: to run faster? I'm pretty sure that's their intention. I don't think they do it to improve their math skills. Or their life expectancy. Or their ethics. Or their look.
Running faster - that's the goal, I have little doubt about this.
But your reasoning here is on the same level than in dozens of other threads:
- any top athlete dopes
- Kenyans are only successful because of doping (despite the fact all top athletes dope)
- New Zealanders at the top don't dope (despite the fact all top athletes dope)
- Kenyans are not successful at all
It's really some remarkable performance which you did in this whole thread: Coevett just looks like some average idiot - 13.16 > 13.24 (both faster than the electronic world record at the time). I could have been done this whole discussion with a cheetah, it would have been just as enlightening.
In your scientific raciat world view, do Kenyan's cheetah genes mean they have the brain capacity of cheetahs, or just the running speed of cheetahs?

YouTube.com

stoned for saying jehovah (life of brian)

psk0812

clip from monty pythons life of brian, where poor old man is about to be stoned for uttering the word Jehovah. Funny clip with John Cleese and Graham Chapman.

Video:www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYkbqzWVHZI

#1258

1 week ago 01/28/2023 4:10am EST

re: slowwer

slowwer wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Your finger is stuck on the exclamation key. Again, you completely avoid the question of why do so many Kenyan runners feel the need to dope when you say they have been enormously successful without it.
Again "they".
I have said it several times to you (but it's like talking to a cheetah, same brain capacity - despite suspected genetical differences also to you).
If I have said that Kenya was extremely successful or not is completely irrelevant: Kenya WAS extremely successful. A fact.
Why do athletes from such an successful nation (in the past, but for sure also today) dope? It can be told to you ten times, you would not grasp it: to run faster? I'm pretty sure that's their intention. I don't think they do it to improve their math skills. Or their life expectancy. Or their ethics. Or their look.
Running faster - that's the goal, I have little doubt about this.
But your reasoning here is on the same level than in dozens of other threads:
- any top athlete dopes
- Kenyans are only successful because of doping (despite the fact all top athletes dope)
- New Zealanders at the top don't dope (despite the fact all top athletes dope)
- Kenyans are not successful at all
It's really some remarkable performance which you did in this whole thread: Coevett just looks like some average idiot - 13.16 > 13.24 (both faster than the electronic world record at the time). I could have been done this whole discussion with a cheetah, it would have been just as enlightening.

Your explanation for why Kenyans dope:

"Running faster - that's the goal, I have little doubt about this."(quote)

Since no one dopes to run slower you have at least mastered that part of the equation. But since you say Kenyans dope to "run faster" that shows they have always doped since the late '60's and '70's, because their motivation will always have been to run faster. That's how you win. So they have doped for decades.

#1259

This post was removed.

#1260

1 week ago 01/28/2023 9:26am EST

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
slowwer wrote:
Again "they".
I have said it several times to you (but it's like talking to a cheetah, same brain capacity - despite suspected genetical differences also to you).
If I have said that Kenya was extremely successful or not is completely irrelevant: Kenya WAS extremely successful. A fact.
Why do athletes from such an successful nation (in the past, but for sure also today) dope? It can be told to you ten times, you would not grasp it: to run faster? I'm pretty sure that's their intention. I don't think they do it to improve their math skills. Or their life expectancy. Or their ethics. Or their look.
Running faster - that's the goal, I have little doubt about this.
But your reasoning here is on the same level than in dozens of other threads:
- any top athlete dopes
- Kenyans are only successful because of doping (despite the fact all top athletes dope)
- New Zealanders at the top don't dope (despite the fact all top athletes dope)
- Kenyans are not successful at all
It's really some remarkable performance which you did in this whole thread: Coevett just looks like some average idiot - 13.16 > 13.24 (both faster than the electronic world record at the time). I could have been done this whole discussion with a cheetah, it would have been just as enlightening.
Your explanation for why Kenyans dope:
"Running faster - that's the goal, I have little doubt about this."(quote)
Since no one dopes to run slower you have at least mastered that part of the equation. But since you say Kenyans dope to "run faster" that shows they have always doped since the late '60's and '70's, because their motivation will always have been to run faster. That's how you win. So they have doped for decades.

Yes, any 5 years old should arrive with this reasoning: runners (nothing special here on Kenyans) dope with the goal to run faster. But this reasoning obviously was not within your grasp.

New Zealanders, Brits and Norwegians dope to "run faster" that shows they have always doped since the late '60's and '70's, because their motivation will always have been to run faster. That's how you win. So New Zealanders, Brits and Norwegians have doped for decades.

At least you have some consistency in your level of reasoning (see above) and your level of sticking to facts (10 world records become 2 if Kenyans have set them, the on paper fastest runners are slow if they are Kenyans, the enormous amount of Kenyan wins and medal placings were all achieved by losers...) - both are practically zero.

The good thing in this terrible thread is that the level of your thinking is clearly exposed.

Unfortunately your other post was removed. Definitely some cheetah issue!

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