Lance Armstrong was not an elite runner.
letstalkbollocks.com wrote:
Blood doping has been around for 50 years. Does it not work? If not why did Lance Armstrong use it?
Lance Armstrong was not an elite runner.
letstalkbollocks.com wrote:
Blood doping has been around for 50 years. Does it not work? If not why did Lance Armstrong use it?
Steve Jones could have gone 2-05 with better shoes and hats
Its not a stretch to believe an EA can run 2-03
That old fox Rosa has been doping his athletes for over 30 years
rekrunner wrote:
Lance Armstrong was not an elite runner.
letstalkbollocks.com wrote:
Blood doping has been around for 50 years. Does it not work? If not why did Lance Armstrong use it?
Oh so it only works for runners?
Will the line be drawn? wrote:
Is anyone else sick of hearing how these East Africans are just genetically superior? They are in area where getting drugs is way easier than other parts of the world and in areas where drug testing isn’t even a thing. It’s awfully funny people think these guys are just better athletes. The only thing they are doing that Americans aren’t is getting away with doping. These guys debuting at times faster than the world record times ten years ago makes zero sense, humans didn’t all of a sudden evolve to be faster in the last 10-20 years. The entire area needs banned from participating in the Olympics until they get good testing.
We should also outlaw other kinds of unfair advantages to kids born in rural Kansas with perfectly average genes. Anyone spending more than 10 percent of their time in any year above 2000 feet. Anyone born with higher white blood cell count than some level.
And absolutely nobody should ever be allowed to take a medication for any reason. Bring back the Jim Ryun shoes, make it fair.
I don’t care if they risk early death by doping. Life isn’t fair. Almost all professional athletes are genetic freaks.
Every professional runner is taking EPO plus another concoction. The only pro runner I knew who was not taking EPO was Ryan Hall. And look what happened with him.
rekrunner wrote:
Yes, you often present this false dichotomy of genetics vs. doping, arguing that genetics is bunk, so therefore high performance is explained by the only other possibility -- doping.
It would be unusual to say "next Snell" or "next Elliot", heroes of yester-century, instead of "next Rudisha", hero of today, and the best of all time.
Lastest British population statistics puts GB at a population of around 60+ million, with 87% (~52 million) white and 3% (~2 million) black -- some small fraction of which are East African. Not sure why global population matters -- even in Kenya and Ethiopia, success is concentrated among certain limited regions and tribes, and not distributed equally.
Why not Kipketer?
Just how many East African ex-pats regularly go back to Africa? Can you confirm your speculative theory with real data? What about those athletes not going back to Africa? For example, do/did all these athletes go back regularly?: Wilson Kipketer, Paul Chelimo, Hilary Bor, Bernard Lagat, Sammy Wanjiru, Buzenesh Deba, King Ches, Futsum Zeineselassie, Sam Chelenga, Lopez Lomong, Hassan Mead, Mo Ahmed, ... ?
Can you explain why Bengt Saltin, in a 1990 study, estimated that 500 Kenyan schoolboys could beat Sweden's best national runner? Were all of these schoolboys already on EPO as early as 1990? Who was funding that? Wouldn't they need refrigerators and electricity?
Can you explain how Kenya and Ethiopia already dominated World Cross Country, a decade earlier, in the 1980s? Were they already using blood transfusions and steroids, like some of the Europeans? Why would East Africans dominate, but not the Europeans with better access to medical technology?
I have often addressed "success as soon as EPO" as a figment of your imagination, attempting to link events (that sometimes did not happen) to milestones that might have occurred years or decades earlier.
Outside of a half-dozen runners around the year 2000 +/- 4 years, North Africans did not "dominate" over the non-African athletes. Any marginal difference I would attribute to Europeans/Americans not reaching their potential. Post El G, North Africans are still doping in large numbers, but not signficantly outperforming non-African athletes, nor even athletes from the 1980s.
I don't have a master race theory but a high altitude theory. My theory predicts, if you take European descended families and move them to Iten, and bring up the kids just like the locals, after 1 or 2 generations, you will see many non-African descended athletes emerging. Ryan Hall was a product of being raised at altitude, combined with a light weight. The Robertson twins improved greatly, as did Moen, with an extended training at high altitude. Even the Johnson twins significantly improved after college, by training at altitude.
If you think of living at high altitude as comparable to a lifetime of continuous micro-dosing of EPO, it should not be hard to imagine East African dominance achieved legally, without rejecting your strong beliefs in the power of EPO.
Coevett wrote:
Personally I've spent a lot of time here explaining these things.
For example, the coach of Peter Bol and Joseph Deng, who posts here a lot, stated that he found those two young athletes whilst 'scouting for the next Rudisha'. Notice that he didn't state 'scouting for the next Snell', or 'scouting for the next Herb Elliott', both of whom, however fast and talented Bol and Deng are, were in a different stratosphere when it came to middle-distance talent.
I don't know the precise number of East African decent or born immigrants in GB now, but I would guess it is at least 1 or 2 million, probably the Somali population alone is at least 2 million. As of now, despite probably every one of them being pidgeonholed by their PE teachers as distance runners, as little Mo Farah was, that population has thus far produced one outstanding distance runner - Mo 'doorbell' 'Aden just held the watch' Farah.
When you ask us to explain the success of East Africans representing Denmark, are you seriously referring to Kipketer?
Most or all of these athletes go back to their home (or 'ancestral home') regularly, where there is still little or no testing.
Does your master race theory also explain why Algerians and Moroccan immigrants suddenly dominated Spanish, French, Belgian running as soon as EPO became available in the early 90s?
How do you explain how the richest and most successful VO2 athlete Kenya has ever produced (by a wide margin) is a pasty faced white guy whose parents are from Scotland?
Thank you rekrunner for replying to all those points with facts and common sense.
At least 2 million Somalis in the UK... SMH
Fffffffffffucccck Renato Canova wrote:
Every professional runner is taking EPO plus another concoction. The only pro runner I knew who was not taking EPO was Ryan Hall. And look what happened with him.
so 2:06 is the natty limit.
Fffffffffffucccck Renato Canova wrote:
Every professional runner is taking EPO plus another concoction. The only pro runner I knew who was not taking EPO was Ryan Hall. And look what happened with him.
That would make Ryan hall the clean world record holder at every distance he competed
just sayin wrote:
Fffffffffffucccck Renato Canova wrote:
Every professional runner is taking EPO plus another concoction. The only pro runner I knew who was not taking EPO was Ryan Hall. And look what happened with him.
That would make Ryan hall the clean world record holder at every distance he competed
wejo has a faster 10000 PB, is wejo the 10000 record holder?
is wejo the 10000 record holder? wrote:
just sayin wrote:
That would make Ryan hall the clean world record holder at every distance he competed
wejo has a faster 10000 PB, is wejo the 10000 record holder?
Wejo needs to undertake the Paula Radcliffe 1million dollar lie detector challenge to take the record
just sayin wrote:
is wejo the 10000 record holder? wrote:
wejo has a faster 10000 PB, is wejo the 10000 record holder?
Wejo needs to undertake the Paula Radcliffe 1million dollar lie detector challenge to take the record
funny how everything circles back.
https://www.letsrun.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/paulawejo1.jpgPaula has promised to unfreeze her samples and release her blood data
As a bonus she will pioneer the undertaking of the new lie detector test
letstalkbollocks.com wrote:
Blood doping has been around for 50 years. Does it not work? If not why did Lance Armstrong use it?
Yep....and blood transfusions probably also had a lot to do with some of the fast times set in the 1980s. Look at all the records that were set by highly suspicious Aouita in the 80s. And the blood doped roided up Soviet women (and Soviet block nations) were killing it left & right. And the East German monsters were full throttle androgens mix with blood transfusions for 2 decades!
just sayin wrote:
Paula has promised to unfreeze her samples and release her blood data
Yeah...when? Maybe the next century when no one would care? ?
Blood doped athletes of the 80s wrote:
letstalkbollocks.com wrote:
Blood doping has been around for 50 years. Does it not work? If not why did Lance Armstrong use it?
Yep....and blood transfusions probably also had a lot to do with some of the fast times set in the 1980s. Look at all the records that were set by highly suspicious Aouita in the 80s. And the blood doped roided up Soviet women (and Soviet block nations) were killing it left & right. And the East German monsters were full throttle androgens mix with blood transfusions for 2 decades!
But it didn't work in the 70s?
“ All of the pro runners you knew “ ! Hundreds of them all taking epo and they admitted it to you ! You probably met 2 as you don’t know any now. And from this you deduce that all of the pro runners you don’t know now must be taking it. Plus a concoction. ? You will be in line for an award for great investigative journalism !
No — ff##ck you ! wrote:
You will be in line for an award for great investigative journalism !
The M!indweak award?
I only ask a couple of questions: how many here have actually raced and competed against Kenyans? How do you explain the disproportionate success of East Africans in the NCAA system? Was Cheserek doping at Oregon? Rono was WSU? Lagat? Meb? Lalang at Arizona? Kimani? Mo Ahmed from Wisco?
The genetic differences are palpable when you are up close and personal. Some of legitimately built for running long distances. Why can a cheetah run faster than a tiger? You forget we are a species.
Genetics schemetics. Fitness is what counts. All of the supposed genetic freaks become athletic nobodies when they lose their superior fitness.
I yawn back at your post. You have no clue what you are talking about.
