Facetime wrote:
African born I should have stated. Also Jager at 13:02 was considered likely doping
But Ben "Holier-than-my-wife" True never cheats. So his 13:02 should be the ceiling for non-African born runners.
Facetime wrote:
African born I should have stated. Also Jager at 13:02 was considered likely doping
But Ben "Holier-than-my-wife" True never cheats. So his 13:02 should be the ceiling for non-African born runners.
casual obsever wrote:
Star wrote:
Chris Solinsky is the fastest non-African 5000m runner ever if I am looking at the list right.
Are you implying some shadyness on his part?
The fastest non-African 5000m runner to date remains convicted drug cheat Baumann. Sadly, his "record" still stands, since over 21 years.
Don't you agree the Baumann case was very shady? The steroid was found in his toothpaste. Would he really be roiding through his toothpaste?
dunes runner wrote:
You being allowed to continually post your racist comments on this message board is a testament to the racist nature of those who allow it to continue, and a continuing shame to you and your country.
Coevett has no shame, and either does the rest of his country.
For example, look at Coe. He joined the IAAF to cover up what they've been doing in England.
GBR GDR Same Difference wrote:
Don't you agree the Baumann case was very shady? The steroid was found in his toothpaste. Would he really be roiding through his toothpaste?
You're asking for rational thinking.
People on this message board are not concerned with rational thinking.
GBR GDR Same Difference wrote:
Don't you agree the Baumann case was very shady?
I don't agree. Neither did the IAAF, successfully insisting on his ban.
I also don't agree with "GBR GDR Same Difference".
Mead might be African born.
The money is in the marathon so top runners go there. Even for a 5k specialist, a 2:08 marathon is worth more than a sub 13 5k at the right races.
casual obsever wrote:
I also don't agree with "GBR GDR Same Difference".
The GDR used scientific training like repetitions and interval training.
GBR never did any of that.
They're the most drugged up country in the world, and because they can't
win legitimately, they're the country that most accuses other countries of cheating.
Moo Goo wrote:
I think Bob Kennedy's run was clean though. I don't see him as being a doper.
Kennedy was part of Komen's group. Komen was likely doped.
Anyone from the KM camp is suspect
casual obsever wrote:
Star wrote:
Chris Solinsky is the fastest non-African 5000m runner ever if I am looking at the list right.
Are you implying some shadyness on his part?
The fastest non-African 5000m runner to date remains convicted drug cheat Baumann. Sadly, his "record" still stands, since over 21 years.
+1
Yeah...imagine that - set in the wild 90s.
Moo Goo wrote:
I think Bob Kennedy's run was clean though. I don't see him as being a doper.
No of course not. Apart from him being a patient of Dr Jeffrey Brown he was clean as a whistle.
Top western elites are just as likely dopers as top African elites.
The reason east Africans do better at 5000 and up is obvious if you just open your eyes: they're lighter. They eat barely half as much on average as Americans.
Your sub-13 Americans may look skinny, but the skeleton inside their absent muscles is still way bigger on average than an east African skeleton. And that's essentially dead weight they're hauling around, they might as well have weight vests on.
As soon as Bob Kennedy retired, he got big and fat. Galen Rupp will be big and fat too, or he may go the ripped weight lifter route like Ryan Hall. Westerners eat too well as kids and grow up too big for there to be much of a "talent" pool for distance running.
Bad Wigins wrote:
Top western elites are just as likely dopers as top African elites.
The reason east Africans do better at 5000 and up is obvious if you just open your eyes: they're lighter. They eat barely half as much on average as Americans.
Your sub-13 Americans may look skinny, but the skeleton inside their absent muscles is still way bigger on average than an east African skeleton. And that's essentially dead weight they're hauling around, they might as well have weight vests on.
As soon as Bob Kennedy retired, he got big and fat. Galen Rupp will be big and fat too, or he may go the ripped weight lifter route like Ryan Hall. Westerners eat too well as kids and grow up too big for there to be much of a "talent" pool for distance running.
Agreed, but won't there be a curve that this disadvantage give us westerners a advantage at ultras/trails/mountain running?
Ding, ding, ding! When presented with the false choice of drugs vs. genetics to explain performance, the simple physical trait of body weight is completely ignored.
A 90-110 pound runner has a huge advantage over the 130-160 pound runner, requiring significantly less energy, better heat dissipation, and to a small degree, less air-resistance.
Having said that, the first sub-27 10000m, Chris Solinsky (one of the non-Africans breaking 13:00 for the 5000 post-ABP) was an exceptionally hefty 160+ pounds. Another overlooked non-genetic factor is the important role of pacing in fast races.
Jakob Ingebrightsen is running the London 5000, Under 13 should be a given if the field is high quality (It is not A Diamond League event, so it may not be) and the pacing is good. I think Mourhit's European Record of 12:49 is safe, Ingebrigtsen will likely break it, but not for 2-3 Years, I just thin he is better at 1500 at his young age, the hardest record for him will be the 3000 by Mourhit who ran 7:26.
I don't think Jakob will focus on sub 13 in London. It's much about reaching the Tokyo standard and evaluete the worth of his 1500m speed in front of Doha.
rekrunner wrote:
Another overlooked non-genetic factor is the important role of pacing in fast races.
It would be interesting to know how significant factor this in explaining the fast times of 1995-2005 as well as the importance of where exactly the running talent navigates.
I've never found a good explanation why there was a significant fall in top speed 2000-2001 in some disciplines (5000,10000) when these presumably Hct 60-65 % guys were running barely faster than their counterparts of the late 1980s. It is equally unexplained why these Hct 60-65 % guys of the 1990s were barely faster than the marathon runners of the 1980s and male marathoners have become faster almost linearly independent of any anti-doping innovations.
Lessepo wrote:
I can’t think of anyone
Tegenkamp, Rupp, Solinsky, Ritz while Ryan Hill's 7:30.93 is deemed as the equivalent of 12:53. It is more a phenomena of birth rates, access to drugs and cycling stealing high Vo2Max talents. Looking forward five years it would surprise me if none of the Ingebrigtsens, McSweyn or Tanner hadn't also accomplished the feet.
Bad Wigins wrote:
Top western elites are just as likely dopers as top African elites.
The reason east Africans do better at 5000 and up is obvious if you just open your eyes: they're lighter. They eat barely half as much on average as Americans.
Your sub-13 Americans may look skinny, but the skeleton inside their absent muscles is still way bigger on average than an east African skeleton. And that's essentially dead weight they're hauling around, they might as well have weight vests on.
As soon as Bob Kennedy retired, he got big and fat. Galen Rupp will be big and fat too, or he may go the ripped weight lifter route like Ryan Hall. Westerners eat too well as kids and grow up too big for there to be much of a "talent" pool for distance running.
El Guerrouj ate heaps, massive meals as did most Moroccans. They had many under 13 minutes.