Nijel Amos 1:41.89!

Coevett wrote:

So you could find 3 pbs, and Steve Scott 3:35.57 - 17th best time ever???

Exactly, not everyone has set a PB in Rieti. But many many have. Also 2nd fastest , 4th fastest and so on...

The times must be questioned in the same way as the times from Monaco.

fighting for nothing wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

Ok. List a dozen then!

You can't do it for yourself?

It's not that difficult.

For a start: 7:20.67 Daniel Komen in 1996.

world records in 1500m/mile

You offer a poor argument. To list athletes that ran their 4th, 10th or 17th best time in a race and offer it as evidence to support Rieti being a tainted track is embarrassing to be honest.

Your highlighted words for Cram are not direct quotes. Cram was probably in the best form of his career in 86, had looked relaxed when winning the Commonwealth title in 1:43.22 (a better run than his Rieti one, off a slower first lap) and had won the European title at 1500m a week earlier. He wasn't going to put his season record at risk running that late in the season at Rieti if he didn't think he was in good enough shape to beat Elliott and Wuyke, both proven 1:44 flat guys at the time. Sounds like sour grapes to me that Coe almost broke his UK record and the World Record, and would have done so had Chesire not inexplicably run ahead of him and then slowed down in front as they hit the bell, causing Coe to change pace and run wide round him.

The addition of names 'like Ngeny, Komen, Morceli..' doesn't help your cause much either. All 3 ran their fastest times during the period when EPO use was rampant, there was no test for it and the testing of north Africans (as it has been up to very recently) was not to the same standard of runners from most other parts of the world.

Komen, Ngeny and Morceli also ran ridulously fast times on other tracks around Europe, not just Rieti.

What a reply without any value.

That's what Cram has written about his own race: "I raced there on a few occasions and in 1986 had a baffling afternoon. First of all I ran a stupidly quick 800m at the end of a tiring season and after a couple of late nights." But for sure you know it much better.

These are the numbers which I could find. I'm sure if you have deeper results from these races you will find more athletes which have set PBs (but you would clearly not list them). You should not assume the mistake to think that because you would list only the data which perfectly fit your point that others are doing the same.

In the race were Coe has set his lifetime PB (by over 2s) another athlete also has set his lifetime PB (by well over 1s). On the same afternoon another athlete has set his lifetime PB in another event. Others have run times close to their PB, and even Scott has done a performance well over average for him.

Komen, Ngeny and Morceli have set lifetime PBs in Rieti, two of them are still standing world records.

Everyone who is not blinded by his bias sees that these numbers lead to the same conclusion than you and many others do for the Monaco track of the last decade: the times are inexplicable fast.

Cram was so tired and had a few nights drinking but managed to produce the following wins:

05/09 3:30.15 Brussels (2nd fastest ever)

07/09 1:43.19 Reiti

12/09 3:49.49 mile London (4th fastest ever)

All those tracks must have been short but your reckoning :)

Coe past his prime, but still managed to run very well at the European Champs, running Cram all the way to the line in the 15 after easily beating him in the 800 the week prior to his 3:29.

More contact to your stats, make them seem less relevant.

I’d still like to know how many of the people posting about Monaco or Reiti have actually been there?

JRinaldi wrote:

Cram was so tired and had a few nights drinking but managed to produce the following wins:

05/09 3:30.15 Brussels (2nd fastest ever)

07/09 1:43.19 Reiti

12/09 3:49.49 mile London (4th fastest ever)

All those tracks must have been short but your reckoning :)

Coe past his prime, but still managed to run very well at the European Champs, running Cram all the way to the line in the 15 after easily beating him in the 800 the week prior to his 3:29.

More contact to your stats, make them seem less relevant.

I’d still like to know how many of the people posting about Monaco or Reiti have actually been there?

You are some great Reiti-expert, aren't you?

Not much respect for Cram from the GB fraction it seems.

Who has said the track is short?

No, listing of athletes with 6th fastest time set in the race where Coe has set his lifetime PB is not emberassing. It could be only for someone who is not interested in the question at all or someone who is not very bright.

Your comparison to Monaco is also insubstantial. Maybe you understand this: if a school track is not 400m but 380m (I don't say Rieti was short), you will still not get many sub 3:30 times for 13 year olds, but maybe a child who could run 4:30 for 1500m will finish in 4:20.

Much more helpful is to compare the Rieti times with other times the athletes have set during their career. A 4th fastest career time means the athlete has run just 3 times faster, during his whole career.

In the same race where Coe has set his lifetime PB (by over 2 seconds) Stefano Mei also has set his lifetime PB (by well over 1 second).

Luca Vandi was close to his lifetime PB (which was set in Rieti).

Walter Merlo was 5/100 slower than his lifetime PB.

Paolo Lama has set his lifetime PB.

Angelo Carosi has set his lifetime PB (he probably could have run little bit faster later when he became a top-class steepler, but still it was the fastest which he has run in this part of his career).

So, at least 4 athletes have set their lifetime PB in this race. Two others were close (one by just 5/100th). Something similar has happened in the 800m the same afternoon. A race which Steve Cram describes as: "stupidly quick 800m at the end of a tiring season and after a couple of late nights". Yes, he was in great shape at the moment, but obviously he was not expecting something close to this time under the circumstances. Or we just assume Cram talks nonsense. Or is it more likely it's the Brit letsrun fraction?

Rieti has seen world records in the mens 100m, 800m, 1000m, 1500m, Mile, 3000m and womens Mile. Two of them still standing.

But nothing to see for you, because Monaco has produced more super fast times in the last decade.

Strange bias.

Deanouk wrote:

fighting for nothing wrote:

There are dozens of examples that Rieti has produced super fast times against all reason.

Ok. List a dozen then!

4:17.44 Puica in 82 - world record

3:30.77 Ovett in 83 - far from his best in windy conditions Ovett set his PB (world record)

1:43.19 Cram in 86 - his 2nd fastest, after a couple of late nights...

3:29.77 Coe in 86 - 5 years after his record breaking year Coe set his PB by 2s+ while hindered by the pacemaker

3:28.86 Morceli in 92 - after 7th in Barcelona and 3:30.75 in Zuerich (world record)

3:44.39 Morceli in 93 -after 3:46.78 in Oslo and 3:47.30 in Brussels (world record)

1:41.83 Kipketer in 96 - best non-Rieti time in 96: 1:42.17

7:20.67 Komen in 96 - after 7:25.16 in Monaco and 7:25.87 in Brussels (the still standing world record, nobody came within 2.3 seconds)

2:11.96 Ngeny in 99 - after 2:12.66 in Nice (the still standung world record)

1:42.32 Kipketer in 02 - fiveyears after his best, his fastest non-Rieti time in 02: 1:42.74

9.74 (heat, world record) + 9.78 Powell in 07 - fastest non-Rieti time in 07: 9.83

1:42.01 Rudisha in 09 - his best non-Rieti time in 09: 1:43.52

1:41.33 Rudisha in 11 - his best non-Rieti time in 11: 1:42.61 (from Monaco!)

interesting....'10 was when monaco got an upgrade and ruisha's '11 is faster than his monaco time.

i think monaco did what rieti did to take over the "fast" track mentality. problem is rieti isnt the iaaf headquarters, and monaco is one filthy rich "country". whats sad is no one can get close to el Gs WR in the 1500 on a 2-3 second faster track lolz

Rieti's always been known as an extremely fast place to run, whereas Monaco has a great deal of money to bring in fast pacers and great fields, so it can be expected to have the best times every year. The weather's probably equally good, though Rieti might even have better weather and has the trees they talk about as giving more oxygen on the track.

The numbers don't settle this. Monaco's greater budget would bring better times and the time of year makes a difference--Rieti is usually very late in the season and some are past their best, some at their best. But there are a LOT more top times at Monaco than Rieti:

8 sub 3:30s at Rieti

32 at Monaco

3 sub 3:50 miles and a 3:50.20 at Rieti (33 ranked in the mile list)

3:55 is the best at Monaco (obviously this stat means little since they don't run the mile often there, 21 ranked in the mile list)

In the 800m, there are 51 sub 1:44s at Rieti

There are 76 sub 1:44s at Monaco

In the 3000m,

there have been 21 sub 7:30s at Monaco, four of the top seven,

and 64 sub 7:35s

At Rieti, there have been 8 sub 7:30s, the best of all time at 7:20 but then #2 is just 7:28.70, eight seconds back,

and 31 sub 7:35s.

The best 5000m at Rieti is 13:04.

there have been 11 sub 13s at Monaco.

zxcvzvcx wrote:

In the 800m, there are 51 sub 1:44s at Rieti

There are 76 sub 1:44s at Monaco

6 of the top 30 times are from Rieti, 2 from Monaco.

zxcvzcxv wrote:

In the 3000m,

there have been 21 sub 7:30s at Monaco, four of the top seven,

and 64 sub 7:35s

At Rieti, there have been 8 sub 7:30s, the best of all time at 7:20 but then #2 is just 7:28.70, eight seconds back,

and 31 sub 7:35s.

The best 5000m at Rieti is 13:04.

there have been 11 sub 13s at Monaco.

How often did Rieti has had a top-level 3000m or 5000m? Just a few times.

TrackCoach wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Oldmanstrength = Onthejuice

Amos lives and trains in the U.S.

Not saying it is impossible, but its not easy to dope when you are getting half dozen random test a year.

Are you saying USADA is responsible for testing him? I would like to know evidence of this.

7th September 1986 Rieti wrote:

Luca Vandi was close to his lifetime PB (which was set in Rieti).

Walter Merlo was 5/100 slower than his lifetime PB.

Paolo Lama has set his lifetime PB.

Angelo Carosi has set his lifetime PB (he probably could have run little bit faster later when he became a top-class steepler, but still it was the fastest which he has run in this part of his career).

So, at least 4 athletes have set their lifetime PB in this race.

What? I've never heard of these athletes! They all sound like 2nd rate Italian athletes who probably have never run on other Grand Prix/Diamond League tracks around Europe. Just like there are some Brits who get asked to run at the London and Birmingham Diamond Leagues, as it's taking place in their home country and would never get an invite to run in any otehr top venues, these Italians probably had Rieti as the highlight of their season!

You have listed 9 all-time great middle distance runners who all set WRs or set faster (or equivalently faster) times on other tracks, so one would expect them to run quickly on any track where they were at or near a peak and chose to have an attack at a WR or fast time! What would have been more useful is if you were to list the athletes (and their times) that came after them in the race. Then you would find that the sheer depth ion number of fast times in any specific race, is far greater in Monaco than Rieti.

Puica ran a faster mile at Zurich. The 2nd athlete behind her in Rieti was 8 secs behind.

Ovett ran a slew of 3:31's off some dire pacing and the only unexpected thing about his WR in Rieti was that he hadn't run faster than that time a lot earlier in his career. Second in that race was Deleze ( a 3:31 runner at his best) almost 4 secs behind, who had run a quicker 3:32 high in Zurich a week or so before. So if Rieti is such a favoured track, then why did he run slower in Rieti?

Cram ran only 0.03 faster than he did in winning the Commonwealth title the same year, off a faster 1st lap in Rieti. He also ran a faster time at Zurich the year before, so 1:43.19 was hardly beyond his compass.

Coe was capable of sub 3:30 from 1979, yet the few attempts he's had at the WR were ruined by dreadful pacing. His 3:32.03 WR in 79 was certainly representative of at least a 3:30, considering he went through 400m in 53 high (the clock stopped in the wrong position showing 54 low for the pacer)and ran solo from 700m off very erratic laps. And anyone who can finish a 3:32.3 with a last 200m of 25.7 and last 100m of 12.4, is certainly not represented by a 3:31.9 pb.

Second to Coe was Maree in 3:33.34, more than 3.5 secs behind. He was a 3:29 guy at his best and had run a 3:32.5 a couple of weeks prior. So again, the 'magical' Rieti track didn't help him run a pb!

Morceli came 7th in the Olympics in 92 because he was baulked on the back straight and ran a dreadful race. His Rieti WR attempt was a consolation effort for running so below par in Barcelona when he was the favourite. He went on to run 3 times quicker on other tracks: 2 times at Monaco and 1.5 secs faster in Nice. 2nd in that Rieti race was 3secs + behind.

Kipketer ran faster than his best time at Rieti on 3 occasions, including 2 WRs, and by 0.7secs. 2nd in his 1:41.8 race was a distant 1.6secs behind.

Komen and Ngeny had very meteoric rises and equally swift declines after a couple of seasons, slap bang in the middle of the era when EPO was rampant and there was no test for it. They both ran similar out of this world times in other events too, Komen in the 2 miles and Ngeny with a 3:43 mile.

Rudisha ran sub 1:42 7 times, and 3 of those were faster than he produced at Rieti. His times on the Italian track were hardly anomolies for him at the time.

I'm not doubting that Rieti didn't produce some very fast times in its heyday, but (Komen apart), none of those listed were outlier performances from the athletes who produced them. The meet came at the end of the season, about 2 weeks after the Champs, when athletes would have expected to be at their best. Coupled with the fact it usually had a very relaxed atmosphere, great weather and some decent fields, then it was in a good position to produce fast times. But it doesn't have the sheer depth in numbers of fast performers as Monaco has. And many of the fast times set at Monaco by some athletes are way beyond what was expected of them, far faster than they ran before or after and anywhere else. E.g Wheating (3:30.9 Monaco, 3:34.3 elsewhere), Farah (3:28.8 Monaco, 3:34.1 elsewhere), Iguider (3:28.7 in Monaco, 3:31.4 elsewhere; and he never looked like he was capable of sub 3:30 in any of his non-Monaco races), Tuka (1:42.5 Monaco, 1:43.8 elsewhere), Kiprop (3:26.6 at Monaco, 3:29.3 elsewhere), Kiplagat (3:27.6 in Monaco, 3:29.6 elsewhere), Willis (3:29.6 at Monaco, 3:32.1 elsewhere), Makhloufi (3:28.7 Monaco, 3:30.4 elsewhere), Bosse (1:42.5 Monaco, 1:43.4 elsewhere), and so on....

Year in and year out Monaco throws up the majority of the fastest times for the year in the middle distances. I think I posted a more in depth analysis of the sheer numbers per season earlier on in this thread, if you care to take a look. I'm sure the weather conditions (talk of there being no wind down the back straight due to the construction of the stadium), large sums of appearance money and decent pacing help, but it's not even positioned particularly advantageously in a season. It's usually early July, and most of the major champs the athletes are aiming for are normally at least a month or more away. So the suggestion athletes are at a peak for Monaco is a bit of a red herring. They shouldn't be if their aim is to win medals 4 to 6 weeks later. Taken all into consideration, the sheer volume of fast times and pbs set on a regular basis at Monaco is more of an anomaly than the one or two performances from the elite athletes set back in the day at Rieti.

First of all Monaco is positioned to collect the mild sea breeze down the back straight but no corresponding headwind down the home straight. Ever notice that the short events aren't spectacular but longer events are given the ABP era? It is above ground. Nice weather.

You're really some laughable bloke.

You never heard of these athletes? (very important to put a "!" behind these info). Well, you are probably right, some of them might never have run in Zuerich, Brussels... And what does this tell us? That the fields in Rieti were far from as deep as on the big meetings, and therefore some listing of the number of athletes under some benchmark in Zuerich or Brussels compared to Rieti is just silly.

And for sure, all of them have trained years just for this highlight race in Rieti in September (international athletes who competed at European indoor champs and so on). You have never heard of them, but you claim to know their focus. Many many athletes have set lifetime PBs in Rieti (at least 4 in Coe's 3:29). But for sure nothing to see for you here. Laughable.

It's getting more and more silly and you sound like 12 year old child who refuses to accept reality.

The whole athletics world since decades is wondering about the fabulous times being achieved in Rieti year after year. No, not just a few as you pretend again and again. There are hundreds of examples. Since decades it's being discussed, what could be the reason for this mass of fantastic times which were run in this 2nd rate meeting at the end of the season. Nobody has questioned the fact about these times galore - only you claim all is not true and just a few top stars took opportunity of the late date (!) in the calendar. For sure, the latest meeting has the best date to achieve super fast times. What a nonsense. (why is Rieti not renowned for super performances in the field events?).

And your stupid questions like: "Why is it that not all runners behind the record setter were running PBs" are exactly that: stupid. I can ask the same nonsense: "Why is it that Jakob Ingebrigtsen this year could run 3:30.16 in Lausanne and than just 3:30.47 in Monaco?" Same for Tim Cheruiyot, Ayanleh Souleiman, Filip Ingebrigtsen.. Why is it that Alfred Kipketer could run only 1:48.68 last year in Monaco, despite a PB of 1:42.87 and a SB of 1:44.28. Why at all do you compare Farah's Monaco results with his other 1500s? Those two sub 3:29 races from Monaco were his only 1500s of any significance since 2013. I could go on and on.

Nobody questions that Monaco has seen the fastest races especially in the mens 800m and 1500m in the last decade. What could be the explanation for this? Nobody (apart from you) questions that Rieti has seen super times galore for something like 3 decades which don't fit with a (at best) 2nd rate meeting on the very latest date in the athletics calendar. What could be the explanation for this?

Coe would have run 3:28 (and would have beaten Cheruiyot and so on) on the Monaco track, but his 3:29 from Rieti for sure stands unquestioned by you. On his 7 occasions were he has run in Zuerich the 1500m (or mile) Coe could not manage to run under 3:32 (despite the fact that he focused always on this meet and Zuerich always has had probably the best date in the calendar), but on his one occasion were he has run in Rieti he did a 3:29, while being hindered by the pacemaker. But nothing to see.

You can't be taken seriously.

Rudisha has not run 3 times faster than in Rieti.

I have not searched for this at all, but:

William Tanui - Olympic 800m champion in 1992 - has raced in Rieti 9 times. With two exceptions he has set in the process his seasons best (5 times in the 800m, 2 times in the 1500m).