To those who say ALL elites are doping, what exactly are they on?

why isn't anyone saying it wrote:

peptides.

.....as in speeeed peptide? ?

Devil Dog wrote:

Micro dosing EPO is almost impossible to detect. It made times like 3:26, 7:20, and 12:37 possible. Knowing those two facts, I'd guess that most dopers still use EPO.

They didn't need to micro dose back then. No out of competition blood testing in Kenya or Ethiopia back then. Kenya only got it 5 years ago hence all the recent busts.

Sprinters are on steroids. Probably on some new undetectable one like the clear. Every so often the testers catch up. America's still think their sprinters are clean despite numerous top doping busts Gay, Gatlin, Jones to name a few.

There is a variety of other drugs abused

EPO is as prevalent now as it ever was. Just as Dibaba, Rhonex, Berega, Kipchoge, Tefera, Kwemoi, Centowitz, etc...

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Devil Dog wrote:

Micro dosing EPO is almost impossible to detect. It made times like 3:26, 7:20, and 12:37 possible. Knowing those two facts, I'd guess that most dopers still use EPO.

They didn't need to micro dose back then. No out of competition blood testing in Kenya or Ethiopia back then. Kenya only got it 5 years ago hence all the recent busts.

Sprinters are on steroids. Probably on some new undetectable one like the clear. Every so often the testers catch up. America's still think their sprinters are clean despite numerous top doping busts Gay, Gatlin, Jones to name a few.

There is a variety of other drugs abused

https://www.athleticsintegrity.org/disciplinary-process/global-list-of-ineligible-persons

No-one has mentioned HGH. Why do you think elite athletes often have braces? Many will combine this with tiny doses of insulin (and often creatine, for short events), and T4 (or T3 if they're less knowledgeable).

Peptides: no; they will render a positive test.

Patches are used to deliver steroids by some, but even this is now very difficult due to the sensitivity of testing. No one is risking designer steroids for two reasons: (a) a modified steroid can give a false positive for another steroid (b) Conte showed that this isn't worth the risk. The HGH + approach is really the only safe one. If you're in doubt, just look at the different in the bodies of athletes now compared to the 80s when steroids were rife; the body composition is vastly different.

Stimulants are very difficult to get away with. Most quite simply use caffeine.

To people confused about how one would acquire these drugs. Its not dark back alley dealings.

One method is through legal "straw" prescriptions. However this involves more people (more liabilities) and the drug has to be prescription, so I am speculating its not as ubiquitous.

What I am willing to bet is much more prevalent, and how the majority of designer/obscure/prescription drugs (not the common weed/heroin/meth street drugs) are purchased, the "dark net". Read up on Silk Road for a basis on how it works, get some crypto then boom, drugs right to your door. And you best bet a whole cocktail of PEDs is readily available. A drawback to this method is there is much more risk- quality/purity/arrested can't be guaranteed.

I personally think all non-elites are doping, so that they can one day reach that lofty plain where they will be called elite dopers by LRC.

100% of elites are doping.

100% of residents of Boston are Obama-loving Democrats.

100% of residents of New Orleans are jazz musicians.

0% of professional curling participants are athletes.

All Germans in 1944 were Nazis.

100% of queen-size duvets are polyester-filled.

Don't ya just love blanket statements? Especially that last one?

you mean,what arent they on?theyre on every and any drug,and combination of drugs they can get their hands on.depending on the event,theyre on stanazolol,dianabol,anavar,testosterone,human growth hormones,masteron,epo,blood doping,clenbuterol,trenbolone and more.epo and low doses of cutting steroids would be a favourite for distance runners,sprinters and field athletes take stronger stuff.they dont get caught because they have sponsors,doctors,and athletics and sporting federations that are complicit with it.any postive test would get swept under the rug,and pay a fee,and youll be fine.everyone turns a blind eye,and theyre not on small or micro doses either.thats just a myth.the testers have to look like theyre doing their job when in reality they usually only pop expendable athletes.an athlete here and there will get caught,so it looks like theyre winning the war on drugs.its also fashionable to catch athletes from ukraine and belarus,when the real worst offending countries continue to get away with it.

ponderer of ponds wrote:

There numerous posters on here that claim that all elite runners are doping in some way, not just the usual suspects like Kenya, Morocco, Russia, etc. OK fine, so doping explains how they are so fast. So what exactly are they using? And how are they getting away with it. I'm more interested in hearing about athletes from developed countries with more drug testing.

I remember reading a post some time ago from someone who claimed to have first hand knowledge the all of the BTC athletes are doping. I'd like to hear the specifics on that if that poster is still around (of course, he may have just been trolling).

Will claye gets his service in Mexico. Beef there contain plenty of peds, no injection needed, just lunch in Tijuana will do the job.

LDoc wrote:

Stimulants are very difficult to get away with. Most quite simply use caffeine.

Not likely. Caffeine just doesn't work as a serious performance enhancer. It can make you alert but not anything beyond where you'd be if you were fully alert already.

For decades after speed was banned, sprinters were getting slaps on the wrist for using ephedra as a substitute. It's still legal as long as you stay below a threshold, and even amphetamines are legal to train with (hmmmm...!). When ephedra was outright banned to the public in most countries, sprinters cast around for alternatives, some of which WADA found out about and banned, like methylhexanamine which got Yohan Blake suspended.

But sprinters got faster anyway. If their dosage of anabolics is down, and they can't get away with substituted epinephrine, how are there now so many sub 9:90 and sub 44 sprinters? Sure, some may be protected, but that was likely true in the past too, and today's speed demons are making the Balco crowd look like snails.

That's why I think there's another stimulant out there. I have an idea what it might be, but I'm not gonna say because I don't want it to be banned, as it's not dangerous or unfair to use and is naturally occurring ... it's been a standard in gyms for years and is different from the usual notion of "stimulants," which may be why it's not on WADA's radar. Ask a lifter what's in their stack and they'll probably mention it. Or there may be something else I have no idea of.

I've heard you mention this before - are you suggesting widespread corruption? And who exactly are the "worst offending countries" that continue to get away with it? U.S.? UK? Japan? If there are worst offending countries other than Russia then it's not fair to Russia that the IAAF gives them the death penalty while these other worst offending countries get a free pass. And if there are worst offending countries why is Russia only being targeted?

☝️However, I do see some favoritism exhibited by the IAAF in giving the death penalty to Russia while treating the Kenyans with kid gloves. Part of that I believe, is that it's far easier to vilify a country like Russia with their history under communist Soviet Union than to pick on a 3rd World nation that has a bunch of poor citizens trying to escape poverty through running. IOW, let's empathize with the Kenyan doping problem because they're just trying to escape poverty and earn a living while we'll condemn those mean, evil Russians. Instead, the IAAF puts Kenya on a "watch list" while we watch them continue to dope like crazy. Lol.

Kenya should be banned also.

Intrested how T4 and or T3 can be used for sports performance enhancement in sprinters?

What would be ideal hypothetically speaking?

Ive heard T4 with Clenbuterol enhances fast twitch muscle and also that T3 on its own converts slow to fast twitch muscles.

How would you use those ideally to improve sprint times?

Bad Wigins wrote:

of course all elites are doping.

Lay off the weed dude.

usa is by far the worst overall offender with a lot of people doping across most events.they have the world's largest talent pool,and it would be impossible to catch most of them.they sometimes start in high school,then dope into college,then dope more to become pro.sport there is a pressure cooker,super competitive environment,and doping is often the only way to be competitive.kenya and ethiopia are the worst offenders in distance running,jamaica has a huge problem in sprints,and there is widespread doping in uk,france,germany ,morocco,ukraine,poland,china, italy, cuba and many other countries.how do i know? i can tell simply by looking at them.it gets a bit suspicious when you see men and women sprinters who show up to run looking like competitive body builders,or something concocted in a laboratory.doping now is far worse than it was in the 80s,and the athletes are on higher doses of drugs. theyre stacking their drugs,mixing human growth hormones with various cutting and bulking steroids.weight training alone cannot turn an athlete into an unnatural looking cyborg,especially not women with their estrogen. yet here they all are,and theyre getting away with it.you bet theres widespread corruption,but its in most sports,not just in track and field.i think russia getting singled out is political,although doping there was systematic and widespread.

They are powered by the tears of the posters here that never achieved what they were in their own minds.

This is an entertaining forum for elites to scroll through because most "coaches" or "former D1 runners" are so full of it, like that crazy guy that says aliens built the pyramids.......you can't explain it so you chalk it up to drugs.

Keep up the hate!!

ponderer of ponds wrote:

not just the usual suspects like Kenya, Morocco, Russia, etc.

How in the world do you not put the US as one of the usual suspects?

Look at the story of Marion Jones, Justin Gatlin connected with Trevor Graham.

Jones never failed a test but was stripped of her titles because of overwhelming evidence of undetectable drugs and masking agents.

Gatlin seemed to fail a test because of either some mistake being made, not expecting testing at the Kansas Relays or sabotage from a physio.

Ben Johnson juiced for years and only failed one test.

Members of the 2000 US 4X400 squad passed tests but were stripped of medals from later investigation.

And of course Lance Armstrong never failed a test.

There is a history of athletes always being ahead of the testers.

Since it has been proven over and over that athletes can beat tests, there is no real presumption of innocence in opinion that any elite is clean.

People don't think ALL elites are doping but have no way to pinpoint which may be clean or not.

juice to the gills wrote:

Devil Dog wrote:

Micro dosing EPO is almost impossible to detect. It made times like 3:26, 7:20, and 12:37 possible. Knowing those two facts, I'd guess that most dopers still use EPO.

those times weren't done on micro dosages. OP, look up Actovegin.

https://academicathletics.wordpress.com/2016/07/06/actovegin-the-unfortunately-legal-performance-enhancing-drug/

Just one example of legal PEDs.

Activegin has no affect whatsoever on haemoglobin or haematocrit- I hope you were not implying that. It is strictly for recovery/repair of tissues. Though the power of the study was small, performance in a strict sense was not seen to be changed significantly with its use. The times referenced were achieved on Epoeitin Alpha and later, synthesized derivatives of such.

ECJ wrote:

Intrested how T4 and or T3 can be used for sports performance enhancement in sprinters?

What would be ideal hypothetically speaking?

Ive heard T4 with Clenbuterol enhances fast twitch muscle and also that T3 on its own converts slow to fast twitch muscles.

How would you use those ideally to improve sprint times?

Physiologically impossible to convert slow to fast twitch fibers, though the opposite is true.

Staying healthy on their training loads is half the battle. Recent report I seen showed most Kenyans get popped for steroids.

But people think steroids think 300 ibs bodybuilders and don't think it will help with running. Not so, keeping the body from breaking down will help them much more with their performances than increasing their red blood cell count will.

Haterade wrote:

They are powered by the tears of the posters here that never achieved what they were in their own minds.

This is an entertaining forum for elites to scroll through because most "coaches" or "former D1 runners" are so full of it, like that crazy guy that says aliens built the pyramids.......you can't explain it so you chalk it up to drugs.

Keep up the hate!!

And they invent all sorts of supposed benefits of whatever the latest drug is.