I'm Done. The Mezra death brought home how cycincal and damaging this website it to real people

We're talking about sports here. Everyone needs to calm their balls a bit and just consider that: we're arguing a relatively obscure sport on an internet forum. It doesn't matter. Ed's record is not that important. None of this is. People being harassed, bullied, stalked, "fat" or "skinny" shamed, etc - 99% of those instances would not occur if the same groups of people met in real life.

Good riddance wrote:

Disingenuous idiot wrote:

Good riddance. A pox on the internet.

These same "investigators" are the ones who were absolutely certain that Sandy Vi was an unqualified ultra-runner.

And was Derek's site involved in any of this? Did Derek or his site have anything to say about this at all? No. Post just one link substantiating that Marathon Investigation even commented on Sandy Villines. You can't.

You are a liar and a troll and just as bad as the people you purport to condemn.

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IDIOT. I made no comment about Derek. That is a defensive position YOU took all on your own.

You are a liar and a troll and incapable or reading.

Ha Ha. You are a tool, a troll, a liar and a scumbag. TYBEE wrote "I do think they will shut down Derek's site" YOU responded, "Good riddance. A pox on the internet.

These same "investigators" are the ones who were absolutely certain that Sandy Vi was an unqualified ultra-runner."

That's a copy and paste of your comments, you devious, disingenuous Troll.

Sancreed wrote:

Trolls like you are just as culpable as the people you are condemning. You took great pleasure in stirring everyone up to become even more determined to nail Frank. At least some posters were simply trying to uncover factual evidence - you were messing with a guy's life for your own twisted entertainment.

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Please. I said many times you guys were ruining his life and the lives of others men unnecessarily. I said you had no idea why he was running or what his motives were and you should not be doing this. I pleaded with you to stop many times.

You didn't. Great work, sleuths.

LRC will be held accountable. In this life or in the next.

Took me a while v4 wrote:

definitely wrote:

Don't tell me no one cares about AG records. This is a site about running with a bunch of middle aged guys on it.

Yes, and I'm one of them. I don't give a flying flimflam about an AG record. I run to beat my own times and realize there are too many variables to make any "record" a 1-to-1 comparison, the least of which is all the incessant doping.

Besides that, an AG record was not even recorded so it doesn't matter what time he ran. He could have ran sub 2.

OK. Just STFU.

I'll say it so you can understand it: WE CARE ABOUT AG RECORDS. Yes, you're right that in the end we old slow racers compete with ourselves but standards are one of the things which makes this sport we love go round.

Much of the thread was over the top (and I hope that we all learn something from this whole sordid mess) but Frank, RIP, could have avoided all of it by #1 - not cheating and #2 - come clean once busted. He didn't do either he chose something entirely different.

Opiate for the Masses wrote:

We're talking about sports here. Everyone needs to calm their balls a bit and just consider that: we're arguing a relatively obscure sport on an internet forum. It doesn't matter. Ed's record is not that important. None of this is. People being harassed, bullied, stalked, "fat" or "skinny" shamed, etc - 99% of those instances would not occur if the same groups of people met in real life.

You can bet 100% of $1000 that if I saw someone cutting the course, I would confront them. I'm not an internet-empowered, real-life cowering p#ssy like you.

And Ed's record is his legacy, it matters a great deal to those of us who struggle against the aging process in an honest fashion as Ed did. He a far greater runner than Frank or any of the melodramatic trolls trying to make hay from another person's mental illness and it's outcome.

Agreed, this is terrible.

At a minimum, there should be no comments on this board on HS kids. Only allowable thread on HS kid should be factual. Like: "Tuohy runs 9:05 3000m" that's it... Nothing about (over/under) training, nothing about her interview skills (good or bad), nothing about weight (too skinny/too fat), no speculation about potential progress. I would even say, no comments about potential chance of winning/losing next meet. Just nothing else.

I know that it's probably not enough, but it would be a good start.

I really don't know how I would feel if I saw personal comments about me on a board. It must be terrible. It's just too much for a kid (anyone perhaps) to handle.

It seems that a 70 y.o. could not handle it.

Imagine a kid.

It’s OK to ask wrote:

In the end, it harmed Frank. He built a house of cards, it crumbled, and for whatever reason, it appears he couldn’t deal with it. Some argue it was bullying that sent him over the edge. It could be the real Frank just couldn’t cope with the exposure of the fantasy Frank, and perceived bullying had nothing to do with it.

Agreed. If so much of your life is built around a fantastic alter ego you created and it suddenly gets exposed as fraudulent, it would be incredibly difficult to face the people who had believed in you all those years. In your darkest moment it might even seem impossible to move forward in a meaningful way. And the bigger you've built the fantasy, the more difficult it might be to admit the truth to those who are closest. The whole thing is pretty sad.

Copied from the other thread but pertinent to this discussion.

——————

I hesitate to post and I rarely come to this site. Oddly I followed a google link to this.

I have been the subject of some well-deserved scrutiny and “outing” on this board. I created a terribly negative and potentially career-ending scandal that was picked up by every major news outlet and discussed at great length on this board.

It was an incredibly tough time and it was a low point that I wish on nobody. As a vocal and, at one time, successful part of this community, my personal indiscretions and professional/ethical mistakes had become fodder for a lot of truth, half-truths and partial/untruths to be laid out in front of the people I knew and cared about in the entire community.

At one point RoJo or WeJo (can’t remember now as it’s been like 7 years) reaches out to me. The threads had become pretty damaging and the line of truths a bit blurred. I told them that, as a journalist myself, I can see the need to tell the story and to leave the threads up. I screwed-up, I deserve whatever happens at this point.

However, I can tell you, at the point I hit rock bottom on this, I could see a line in front of me. I could see the line that I would never cross. I could see that line that, sadly, people see as their only way out of the humiliation or the embarrassment. I knew I could never cross it, but believe me when I tell you that line is out there.

I do believe there is a need to draw attention to situations like mine, or cheating, or whatever it is that negatively impacts other people. I can tell you, however, that not everyone has the capacity to handle that and we should be respectful of that.

Thankfully, I was able to get though it. Move on and be grateful to have found success in another field all together. Unfortunately, some people cross that line before they realize that “this too, shall pass”.

Tell the stories. Be mindful of the fact that these are people with families and friends. Be mindful of the fact that there is a line out there that anyone, and I mean anyone, can come to and have to make a decision.

If you are ever in a position where you have been hit with massive adversity (self-inflicted like mine, or, of no fault of your own) you don’t have to cross that line. If you need to talk to someone that has been through it, track me down and I will make the time for you (added email to bottom).

If you are telling the stories, focus on the facts at hand. Be respectful.

Just two cents from a former coach.

~Kevin Hadsell

info@KevinBarbaro.com

Realidad wrote:

I'm not an internet-empowered, real-life cowering p#ssy like you.

Do you see the irony in your post? You just an internet forum to anonymously called someone an 'internet-empowered, real life cowering p..#ssy.'

Besides, what is with you guys and all the name calling?

We're still just talking about sports, right? On the internet? That you participate in that sport and enjoy fighting the aging process through your running (good on ya) - that has nothing to do with tearing down another person's life because it's somehow loosely related to your personal pursuit. Get a grip.

Interesting perspective. Thank you for sharing.

Took me a while v4 wrote:

Posterity wrote:

. But Meza systematically sullied the WR of one of the greatest (and honest and truly humble, not a humblebraggart) runners ever.

It wasn't a sanctioned race there was no WR to be set...

Furthermore, nobody REALLY cares about AG awards or Ed Whitlock. Give me a break.

This is one of the lamest posts I've ever seen. You seem to feel empowered to speak for everybody? Ed Whitlock was an awesome athlete and role model and many people care about what he accomplished. If you don't care, why are you here commenting?

It bothers me that, once again, there is so much riff-raff on LRC from unregistered runners. I think some posters are just trolls that are just trying to create a little chaos. I'm here because I love running and, yes, care about AG records, etc.

Opiate for the Masses wrote:

Realidad wrote:

You can bet 100% of $1000 that if I saw someone cutting the course, I would confront them. I'm not an internet-empowered, real-life cowering p#ssy like you.

And Ed's record is his legacy, it matters a great deal to those of us who struggle against the aging process in an honest fashion as Ed did. He a far greater runner than Frank or any of the melodramatic trolls trying to make hay from another person's mental illness and it's outcome.

We're still just talking about sports, right? On the internet? That you participate in that sport and enjoy fighting the aging process through your running (good on ya) - that has nothing to do with tearing down another person's life because it's somehow loosely related to your personal pursuit. Get a grip.

Enlighten us where exactly anyone on that thread was "tearing down someone's life"? You need to emerge from your snowflake cocoon into the light of day.

If anything, that thread was exemplary, at least as far as deadesq and Derek's behavior, in exposing and elaborate and extensive cheat. As has been pointed out, a mea culpa would have made all of this go away, as it did for the Marine Corps Marathon cheater.

Great contribution, Kevin.

People are coming from different life experiences. Some might not understand how others could be so "insensitive".

I won't post too much about Frank or Loyola anymore now because people will think what I have to say is just brutality. It's not.

My father drank himself to death at 46. I started telling him he was doing just that when I was 12 , I got shouted down or worse by him and even some of my siblings. We often had no food because he lived in a bar spending the social security money we were getting from death benefits from my mother who died after they divorced.

One of my brothers committed suicide a few years later at 21. I have definitely thought about that line many times and was even using drugs and drinking like my dad did for a short time. I also had an eating disorder and was a complete head case about running. I went to therapy when I was 20 to work on myself because I was definitely going haywire. I am still not perfect of course, life is and should be challenging at times, but I am not so patient with people who don't look in their closets and end up being in Franks situation.

I just point this out because people should understand what I said initially, That we all come from different life experiences. Our opinions for or against something aren't always just based in trolling, hating, whatever ,even if our delivery isn't great. Someone with similar experience to mine might even take the apologist side. While , based on my experience, I am appalled and sometimes even suspicious about the motives of the people blaming Derek and others, the apparent denial and shifting the questions away from Frank and the institutions he belonged to , I try to understand that they might not also not be just trolls.

Overall though appreciate everything you said. Good job.

I appreciate an open Forum like this , the lack of control. well the moderation is all over the place but overall different voices get expressed. I think the youngsters should be completely off limits and wish at times that it was a adult only site somehow.

What service?!?! What an utterly dumb question. This dude was a serial cheater!

I don't run, but my brother-in-law is deep into it, and the amount of time and effort he puts into it blows me away. He doesn't even compete at the level I'm sure many who post her do.

But this guy disrespected and spit in the face of anybody who approaches this sport honestly at tremendous individual sacrifice. And if you aren't going to maintain a structure that rigorously supports that, then what's the point of even having these races in the first place?

Age and competition level has nothing to do with it. Regardless of the sport, cheaters should be punished with impunity. However they react to that punishment is completely on them.

The Brojos allowed this sick pursuit of potential cheaters to go on and on in public, despite their own moderator warning that it should be shut down. Cheating is wrong and investigating cheating in races is perfectly fine. But harassing and humiliating individuals on a public forum is completely inappropriate. You could easily do a silent investigation without airing it with constant "updates," etc. The same applies to the extremely hurtful remarks that we see in thread after thread, whether it is the despicable innuendo about female pro runners or girls (I exempt comments on professionals doping and graft and corruption where there is evidence in support of them). Ban the trolls and those who do not discuss issues respectfully and delete the long stalking threads, no matter whether the people like the dentist, the radio guy, or this doctor, are good or bad.

If this death does not force a real questioning of what the Brojos are doing here, that would be a real shame. This situation is awfully reminiscent of the event in The Circle, by Dave Eggers, where a woman working for a Facebook like enterprise uses internet stalkers to unintentionally hound her ex-boyfriend to his suicide.

Realidad wrote:

Enlighten us where exactly anyone on that thread was "tearing down someone's life"? You need to emerge from your snowflake cocoon into the light of day.

If anything, that thread was exemplary, at least as far as deadesq and Derek's behavior, in exposing and elaborate and extensive cheat. As has been pointed out, a mea culpa would have made all of this go away, as it did for the Marine Corps Marathon cheater.

Again, please tell me how this relates to you pursuing your goals as a runner?

runnerdave wrote:

This is one of the lamest posts I've ever seen. You seem to feel empowered to speak for everybody? Ed Whitlock was an awesome athlete and role model and many people care about what he accomplished. If you don't care, why are you here commenting?

It bothers me that, once again, there is so much riff-raff on LRC from unregistered runners.

If this is one of the lamest posts you've ever seen here, welcome to your first day on LRC.

As a follow-up lame post, you will probably all be dead or crippled before you can set an AG 70 record, so there's that. It's such an anomaly that almost nobody should care about it. Further, scrutiny was not given to these long-standing records which we have today. His AG record is likely as meaningless as Frank's. Yes. Another lame, troll, post. I know.

I love the anonymity of posting on LRC, because if not you vindictive asperging pinheads would be calling everyone's employers whenever you got into an argument. As we have seen, you were able to successfully take Frank out and he wasn't even here trying to fight back.