I'm Done. The Mezra death brought home how cycincal and damaging this website it to real people

why not just work with RDs to DQ cheaters?

why the need to publicly shame people (and that is what you are doing) when it can lead to the death of people who's only "crime" is to cheat in a running race.

Are you going to continue the work to investigate the other races Meza may have cheated in?

life's choices wrote:

why not just work with RDs to DQ cheaters?

why the need to publicly shame people (and that is what you are doing) when it can lead to the death of people who's only "crime" is to cheat in a running race.

Because races are public events and people want to know about the cheating going on. Sweeping it under the rug doesn't work. As seen in numerous instances, many races don't care to disqualify anybody even when individuals bring forth evidence. Need we bring up M.R. or fake cancer man John Looker?

Making major instances of cheating known publicly spreads awareness and lets people know they've been duped. It's is in the public interest to know.

Ask yourself why there are even any newspapers reporting on any investigative stories if you think everything is just shaming. You can live in a bubble but reality doesn't work that way.

life's choices wrote:

why not just work with RDs to DQ cheaters?

why the need to publicly shame people (and that is what you are doing) when it can lead to the death of people who's only "crime" is to cheat in a running race.

Firstly it has been shown that RDs turn a blind eye, partly because they cant bother looking for evidence and secondly because cheaters threaten them with legal action- as Meza and supporters did.

Secondly, they are choosing to cheat in a public domain, and they do need to have their performances questioned. All of them get the chance to comment/explain before anything is published. In the case of Meza, he denied and also threatened legal action against MI

pattylover2001 wrote:

If you write an article about the Frank Meza cheat, I would be interested in reading it. This wasn't just a one time cheat that tried to qualify for Boston 1 time, he cheated over a decade! As for his medical work and calling his employers, I am not really interested in that. I would also be interested in why the family still believe the lies with irrefutable evidence in front of them that he cheated.

Again, its very common for people to respond to tragedy with denial. If it helps them deal with their loss, then that's what they should do.

I’ve been relatively moderate on the Meza threads. Agree he cheated, thinks he should be DQ’d, lobbied against suggestions that his employer be contacted.

But at some point we all need to recognize that when someone openly calls another person out for bad behavior in a civil way, the way the original bad actor responds to being called out isn’t the responsibility if the person who called them out. Nobody forced Frank’s hand or did anything unfair to him.

And, as I said on the original thread, we’ve had this societal shift where the word “shaming” is automatically equated with wrongdoing. First, calling someone out for their behavior isn’t really shaming. It’s identifying unacceptable behavior. And, to the extent that someone feels shame for unacceptable behavior, is that really such a bad thing? Negative reinforcement of bad behaviors may not be the only, or the most efficient, way to modify behavior, but it is effective. People should feel shame for having behaved badly. They should learn from that shame and modify their behaviors.

At some point, the further condemnation of Frank became pointless. We reached that point long ago, no matter how much triathlete guru and some others try to rationalize their way to validate continued efforts on this front. Saying that doesn’t make me a cheat, a sympathizer, an enabler or anything else. It makes me a person who realizes that those who were left behind by Frank have lost such that further emphasis on this topic only further punished those who have been punished enough, even if they continue to cover up for Frank (by the way, is it really so hard to understand that family members might cover up for a bad actor in the hopes of saving some positive outlook on him or to save his reputation when they honestly thought he was a good person overall?).

Some folks seem to be missing a bit of perspective.

doubler wrote:

3. My follow up article will be about the media and some of the response after Frank’s death, the claims of bullying, etc.

Can't you just leave it alone. Are clicks THAT important to you?

y wrote:

doubler wrote:

3. My follow up article will be about the media and some of the response after Frank’s death, the claims of bullying, etc.

Can't you just leave it alone. Are clicks THAT important to you?

the story has basically lived through Dereks website and he's copped a lot of flak for it.

i think he deserves the opportunity to bring it to a conclusion.

thoughts and prayers wrote:

y wrote:

Can't you just leave it alone. Are clicks THAT important to you?

the story has basically lived through Dereks website and he's copped a lot of flak for it.

i think he deserves the opportunity to bring it to a conclusion.

Here's an article about journalism and subjects committing suicide:

y wrote:

doubler wrote:

3. My follow up article will be about the media and some of the response after Frank’s death, the claims of bullying, etc.

Can't you just leave it alone. Are clicks THAT important to you?

I went over a month without any stories. If clicks were so important, I’m sure I could have come up with something.

When headlines and story summaries are implying a direct cause/effect and when people are saying I should be in jail and saying I’m a murderer, I have a right to respond.

When verified twitter accounts take private conversations and try to twist them to further their agenda, I have a right to respond.

I agree with your post though I have one caveat. I do think the Frank Meza story is worthy of a professional write up similar to that of Kip Litton in the New Yorker. That doesn't mean that the crowd sourced investigation on LRC should continue, it should not. But rather, if Derek and a professional writer were to collaborate and continue investigation in private, I believe a very interesting and morally instructive account could be produced. However, I also think that nothing should be published until several years have passed and the shock and pain of Frank's suicide have passed.

So much of Frank's story reminds me of the Donald Crowhurst story from the 1960s.

y wrote:

doubler wrote:

3. My follow up article will be about the media and some of the response after Frank’s death, the claims of bullying, etc.

Can't you just leave it alone. Are clicks THAT important to you?

My advice is to do something that has a net positive outcome. This does not seem to be it.

doubler wrote:

y wrote:

Can't you just leave it alone. Are clicks THAT important to you?

I went over a month without any stories. If clicks were so important, I’m sure I could have come up with something.

When headlines and story summaries are implying a direct cause/effect and when people are saying I should be in jail and saying I’m a murderer, I have a right to respond.

When verified twitter accounts take private conversations and try to twist them to further their agenda, I have a right to respond.

You also have the right to take the high road.

Don’t play the victim card here.

+1,000,000

Are you going to continue the work to investigate the other races Meza may have cheated in?

Are you going to continue the work to investigate the other races Meza may have cheated in?

No.

I am not playing the victim card by responding critically to those that slanted their reporting, purposely misrepresented conversations or are claiming that I encourage or take part in bullying/harassing behavior.

doubler wrote:

Are you going to continue the work to investigate the other races Meza may have cheated in?

No.

Why not? Are you not going after course-cutters anymore?

The story drags on because Meza & his friends & his family are set on dragging it on; also set on blaming others for telling them the truth. In their minds, it’s reasonable to tell everyone to stop telling the truth, so they’ll be able to lie more. Nothing has changed because they want to keep lying without consequence, and blaming their lies on everyone else. Nothing will change as long as they continue this failed & corrupt mindset.