Inside Edition knocking on his front door was too far. That is the same group that put together the fake game show during the Mike Rossi / Ken Stillman saga.
Inside Edition knocking on his front door was too far. That is the same group that put together the fake game show during the Mike Rossi / Ken Stillman saga.
It's sad that Frank seemingly chose to end his life rather than come clean about what he did. I don't understand how you're saying everyone here wants publicity, more press and gotcha moments... but are completely ignoring that crafting amazing, world record finish times were for EXACTLY those reasons. If he had cheated with just "pretty good" times (or didn't cheat at all), this is a non-story and there's no spotlight on him to begin with.
tartarm wrote:
You don’t think events can push people over the edge. You don’t think the publicity and Derek’s attempt to always get more press for his stories can’t help.
Derek’s and the people in that thread don’t care about the person. They are out for a gotcha moment. It’s the age we live in.
I hesitate to post and I rarely come to this site. Oddly I followed a google link to this.
I have been the subject of some well-deserved scrutiny and “outing” on this board. I created a terribly negative and potentially career-ending scandal that was picked up by every major news outlet and discussed at great length on this board.
It was an incredibly tough time and it was a low point that I wish on nobody. As a vocal and, at one time, successful part of this community, my personal indiscretions and professional/ethical mistakes had become fodder for a lot of truth, half-truths and partial/untruths to be laid out in front of the people I knew and cared about in the entire community.
At one point RoJo or WeJo (can’t remember now as it’s been like 7 years) reaches out to me. The threads had become pretty damaging and the line of truths a bit blurred. I told them that, as a journalist myself, I can see the need to tell the story and to leave the threads up. I screwed-up, I deserve whatever happens at this point.
However, I can tell you, at the point I hit rock bottom on this, I could see a line in front of me. I could see the line that I would never cross. I could see that line that, sadly, people see as their only way out of the humiliation or the embarrassment. I knew I could never cross it, but believe me when I tell you that line is out there.
I do believe there is a need to draw attention to situations like mine, or cheating, or whatever it is that negatively impacts other people. I can tell you, however, that not everyone has the capacity to handle that and we should be respectful of that.
Thankfully, I was able to get though it. Move on and be grateful to have found success in another field all together. Unfortunately, some people cross that line before they realize that “this too, shall pass”.
Tell the stories. Be mindful of the fact that these are people with families and friends. Be mindful of the fact that there is a line out there that anyone, and I mean anyone, can come to and have to make a decision.
If you are ever in a position where you have been hit with massive adversity (self-inflicted like mine, or, of no fault of your own) you don’t have to cross that line. If you need to talk to someone that has been through it, track me down and I will make the time for you.
If you are telling the stories, focus on the facts at hand. Be respectful.
Just two cents from a former coach.
~Kevin Hadsell
Good to see you learned from experience and are coming from a place of integrity and honest self-scrutiny, Kevin Hadsell.
Fake Laz wrote:
Frank died not because of cyber-bullying, but because he couldn't live with the shame of his own actions.
He didn't die from personal shame. He died from public shaming.
Let's face it. This wasn't getting picked up by national media and going viral if it weren't for a troll riddled thread here. Those national media outlets realize that 5000+ posts equal 100,000+ clicks/views, and that's on a silly little Letsrun website.
In a matter of days FM felt like his life had fallen apart and he had become a pariah. Rojo thinks that in America people are forgiven if they confess. That may be true, but not until bloodlust has been satiated.
There's no blame to go around here for an apparent suicide, but this site has little sense of humanity.
I saw this story last night.
I didn't follow the FM story and didn't know who he was.
I think LRC may want to put an end to threads which get out of hand.
However, it is my belief LRC can't keep up with the nonsense on the board.
Impossible to moderate.
I am a nobody in the track world but I did compete in high school and it's still a sport I love.
I have posted some things on this board and have been made fun of. That's putting it mildly.
I won't go into detail about what some people have said.
But, I think it's great because I get to see the true colours of some people.
I also enjoy insulting them back.
I also realize their are better things to do than insult strangers who likely don't know you personally.
It's a tragedy this guy took his life (if that is actually what happened) and hopefully the site can make adjustments
to reflect on this.
FoggyInChicago wrote:
This is a sad story.
It caused me to recall the phrase “The story I am telling myself”. While a simple sentence, it speaks to the minds ability (and desire) to let emotion, as opposed to critical thinking, drive behavior. I can only imagine the story Frank was telling himself over the years that ultimately led him to where it did. It had to be tortuous and I feel for him and his family.
More broadly, we all have “stories we tell ourselves” but we also have the capacity to change the story. I wish Frank would have changed his story. Maybe the silver lining of this is someone else can learn from Frank can change theirs - be it in running or the rest of life challenges?
FiC
I like this post very much. It not only speaks to the whole story around Frank but other stories about other areas of our lives.
We all have a story that "I am telling myself". Those blaming Frank, those blaming MI and LRC, and those blaming other posters are all telling themselves stories. It's okay to do that. It helps us make sense of things that don't seem to make sense. At no point, did this story seem to make sense. The elaborate cheating, the calls for the ruin of his professional life, and the national media attention was confounding to many of us.
The reality is that all of this was just an unfortunate confluence of events. There is no one aspect of this story that is to blame. All of the parts contributed. Sure, it could have stopped at any point--LRC, MI, Inside Edition, posters here, reviewers there, or many, many years ago with Frank. The ball started rolling on Frank's death long, long ago. Once it started rollling, it became impossible for anyone to stop.
I really hope that someone does learn from this--a cheater, a poster, a blamer, or anyone.
Kevin Hadsell wrote:
I hesitate to post and I rarely come to this site. Oddly I followed a google link to this.
I have been the subject of some well-deserved scrutiny and “outing” on this board. I created a terribly negative and potentially career-ending scandal that was picked up by every major news outlet and discussed at great length on this board.
It was an incredibly tough time and it was a low point that I wish on nobody.....
Thank you for posting here - I very much appreciate your insight as someone who has been there, and your willingness to share it.
Derek is a self proclaimed judge and executioner. If he decides that he wants DQs for someone that he suspects of cheating and he stops at nothing to achieve his aims.
That fuzzy picture of a man on a bike in San Francisco was specious. It never supported proof of cheating. It showed an out of focus photo of a man riding a bike.
Derek is a charlatan pretending to be an expert and just as phony as the cheaters he is trying to expose.
A man of integrity would not seek admiration by publicizing the faults of strangers.
people aren't nice on the internet ....heaven forfend !
josh2322 wrote:
Derek should be ashamed of himself. It’s one thing to post an article and get the disqualification for likely cheating. it’s another to continue to post daily articles to tring further humiliate the guy for page views and paypal donations.
Derek started off just getting people who didn’t belong in the Boston Marathon removed. Now he just posts gotcha style articles aimed at publically shaming people and it was only a matter of time till something like this happened.
Please. Derek posts everything very factually. He isn't the one that laughed at Frank on national tv - that would be Good Morning America.
If you are going to play the blame game, then why not blame LA? If they had DQd him months ago or years ago, you wouldn't have this blowing up into a national story. I mean anyone who understands running could look at his 2015 splits for 10 seconds and realize they are faked.
Get some stats/computer expert to look at the marathon splits of everyone in America between 2:50 and 2:55 for the marathon for the last 10 years and see if a single one of has ever run a 5k segment in over 8 minutes, followed up by one at under 6 minutes per mile. I'd be willing to bet that the answer is no.
https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/screenshot-live.xacte_.com-2019.05.27-19-08-28.pngpeople swore Lance was innocent for years ...when it was dead obvious
all the old guy had to do was show he could run a decent 800 we could do the math from there
it 's easy to prove you can run fast
I don't know Frank.
Frank must have been many great things; supportive husband, respected doctor, minority advocate, inspirational coach, charitable donor, accomplished runner (in his own right), and more.
None of that changes another, obvious fact. Frank was a meticulous, long-time marathon cheat. I would be delusional to think otherwise.
Frank's tragic end doesn't alter this reality, however inconvenient or unpleasant.
Frank had a cheating problem, escalating to ever-faster manufactured times, no doubt fueled by a "high" of escaping detection and by growing admiration and notoriety.
But when he began taking recognition, medals and money away from honest competitors, then set World Age-Group Records, scrutiny and collapse of his House of Cards was inevitable.
No one here or elsewhere need make apology for some small role outing a cheat.
Frank's decisions, every one, good and bad, including his last, were quite his own.
To quote another "Frank",
"I planned each charted course
Each careful step along the byway
And more, much more than this
I did it my way"
mahernan wrote:
Plus what is all this talk about a "running community"? There has never been a "running community". Running is solitary, sure you can run with friends, but running is not a social event, it is full on solitary.
Running communities are everywhere. If you may choose not to participate, that is okay. Running groups have been a long time. More recently, Facebook and other online tools allow runners to encourage each other, discuss training, plan meetups (both to run or socialize), and simply discuss events of this world. If that isn't a community, what is?
The sad thing - and this is where I thought you were going when I read "what is all this talk about a 'running community?" - is that the running community immediately surrounding Frank did not intervene long ago. If any one of my running buddies tried to pull off a cheat, the rest of us would immediately be suspicious and most likely confront him or her.
The Lets Run thread on Frank had several posters mention that he has been a long time known cheat in both marathons and triathlons. Why didn't they try to stop him? At least alert race directors to his methods when you know he is registered or something.
Flounder wrote:
Derek is a self proclaimed judge and executioner. If he decides that he wants DQs for someone that he suspects of cheating and he stops at nothing to achieve his aims.
That fuzzy picture of a man on a bike in San Francisco was specious. It never supported proof of cheating. It showed an out of focus photo of a man riding a bike.
Derek is a charlatan pretending to be an expert and just as phony as the cheaters he is trying to expose.
A man of integrity would not seek admiration by publicizing the faults of strangers.
Please seek counseling.
Flounder wrote:
Derek is a self proclaimed judge and executioner. If he decides that he wants DQs for someone that he suspects of cheating and he stops at nothing to achieve his aims.
That fuzzy picture of a man on a bike in San Francisco was specious. It never supported proof of cheating. It showed an out of focus photo of a man riding a bike.
Derek is a charlatan pretending to be an expert and just as phony as the cheaters he is trying to expose.
A man of integrity would not seek admiration by publicizing the faults of strangers.
Funny how you are exact what you despise Derek for - judge, jury and executioner.
Nevermind Derek ALWAYS reaches out to the the subject for their side of the story.
Nevermind Derek EXONERATED a runner accused of cheating.
Nevermind Derek has published numerous stories without names.
Nevermind most of the pictures on the FM thread, INCLUDING the one on the bike were not discovered or posted by Derek.
It's horrible Frank is dead, even moreso if it was suicide..
The LA marathon didn’t publish 10 articles articles on the guy including one a couple hours before this guy appearently jumped off a bridge. If it was one story and he got DQ’d that’s one thing but 10 is piling on to pile on.
josh2322 wrote:
The LA marathon didn’t publish 10 articles articles on the guy including one a couple hours before this guy appearently jumped off a bridge. If it was one story and he got DQ’d that’s one thing but 10 is piling on to pile on.
Maybe because of 10+ years of cheating and screwing people over. You come across as one of those people that love to blame victims. Frank is not the victim here.
If you guys can’t see that some people crossed the line in the Frank thread, as they do in EVERY cheating thread, then you lack basic human decency. There is no interest to police your own in those threads and it is disgusting.
Straight truth right here - extremely pragmatic (and well written) take. Thanks for contributing this.