Allie O and Karisa Nelson join Brooks Beasts

Cabbage patch kid wrote:

Is it me or does Allie O look a bit like a cabbage patch kid?

Lol yes! She has an extremely chubby face

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

Dollars and cents wrote:

the Beasts have a lot of money into their roster. No more. Tying about big bad Nike. Outside of Bowerman, I bet they have the 2nd biggest pay roll for groups. (NOP only has 4 athletes).

How does NOP only have 4? I count 10 and I might be missing some.

Engels, Murphy, Brazier, Kejelcha, Rupp, Jenkins, Osaka, Rowbury, Hasay, KoKo, Hassan = 11 athletes at NOP.

Was not mentioned in the ADN preview article yesterday. Course record holder David Norris (and the APU ski coach Erik Flora) said that they are watching the forecast and conditions.

Today she said probably not, but you never know...

https://www.adn.com/sports/2019/07/03/its-time-for-mount-marathon-where-the-chatter-this-year-is-about-smoke-and-streaks/

A few more thoughts.

1) Yes I forgot Kerr. He's the best guy/gal on the team by far. But I forgot him because he's not on the website. Why do companies spend hundreds of thousands on a team but not even update the website?

Someone at Brooks reading this, please update your website.

https://www.brooksrunning.com/en_us/athletes/brooks-beasts-track-club

2) Allie's future for me is simple. Marathon or Ultras. She easily could be the Jim Walmsley of the ultra scene. From a sponsorship standpoint, I think she could kill it in the ultras. Have we ever seen like a fairly fast track woman run ultras? The woman that won Western States this year, Clare Gallagher, only made the squad for 4 conference meets when she was at Princeton. Allie's steeple pb is more than a minute behind Ostranders.

I don't think she's fast enough to be a contender in the steeplechase. Yes she could make an Olympic team but I'm talking really relevant on the world scene. You need to have 4:05 1500 speed for that. She doesn't have that. Over the years I've always thought of a few people like Max King or Alli and wondered, "If only they had 10,000 meter steeplechase or half-marathon steeplechase."

I think the marathon is her best bet if she doesn't want to do the ultras. So in that sense the Beasts are surprising but I doubt BTC wanted her. So what other options are there?

Speed can be developed. Allie went to a club that is known for middle distances, they will definitely have her lifting and doing sprints. Courtney Frerich never broke 60 in the 400 until her 2nd or 3rd year as a pro.

Allie ran 4:14 in the 1500 in college off absolutely zero speed training and zero weight room. If she trains like a 1500m runner for a year she'll can get down to 4:08 in a year - conservatively.

Boise was training Allie wrong by having her do 5k and 10k stuff (I understand they just wanted the points). Pro steeplechasers like Frerichs, Coburn, Quigley, Jager, etc. train more like 1500m runners.

Every time she tried doing high mileage in college, she got hurt. Steeplechasing with good form has less injury risk than high mileage.

rojo wrote:

So what other options are there?

NAZ or Ray Treacy seem like a better fit. But she'll do fine reardless.

YMMV wrote:

rojo wrote:

So what other options are there?

NAZ or Ray Treacy seem like a better fit. But she'll do fine reardless.

Or stay with her college coach? These groups have gotten out of hand trying to force people to go there. Danny has coached his wife on the women’s side and that is about it.

Karrissa $40K?

Allie $65K?

What evidence do you have that "steeplechasing with good form has less injury risk than high mileage"? In short, you don't. Anecdote is useful at times but you've made a statement that you can't back up. High mileage is relative and high mileage in itself isn't inherently harmful. The key is a gradual progression and figuring out how much an athlete can handle. Relative intensity is also going to be a part of injury risk which will come along with "speed training"

In summary, the athlete needs to have an appropriate amount of training and appropriate amount of relative intensity. To say Boise was training Allie wrong is a humerous statement in my eyes considering 3 straight steeplechase titles, and several top 10 all time marks in a variety of races. Can her training be improved? Absolutely, but I would disagree with her training "wrong". She's had significant success and she can continue to improve by progressing her training in the next logical step, not completely re-tooling everything!

There have been more that what you mentioned performance wise. I thought Hull would go there, Allie O surprised me. But Brie Felnagle improved with Danny & made an XC team, Jess Tonn won Payton, ran 31 high, and good road races, Hannah Fields ran very well there, not sure if she’s still there, he’s also had 2 other women make Olympic or world teams on the track aside from Katie. Given Allie is the first outdoor champion Brooks has ever signed; what do we expect.

Allie Ostrander seems intelligent from her interviews, and if we keep talking about her I have to imagine she had many options. So she went there for a reason. I doubt it was money, Brooks is the smallest company on here so they don’t have that 6 figure money to do what Reebok is doing (I am sure Reebok wanted Allie O also).

NAZ or Ray Treacy seem like a better fit. But she'll do fine reardless.[/quote]

Or stay with her college coach? These groups have gotten out of hand trying to force people to go there. Danny has coached his wife on the women’s side and that is about it.

Karrissa $40K?

Allie $65K?[/quote]

rojo wrote:

I don't think she's fast enough to be a contender in the steeplechase. Yes she could make an Olympic team but I'm talking really relevant on the world scene. You need to have 4:05 1500 speed for that. She doesn't have that.

Probably right about the 1500 time, but American record holder Courtney Frerichs' 1500 pr is only 4:14. Good enough for a silver medal and the AR.

$100k each for 3 years. $33k per year.

SallyVix has shown her age in not understanding social marketing.

Allie is at $60k/year. She has an established fan base and is the #4 American steeplchaser behind Freirichs, Coburn, and Quigley. One injury to one of those unicorns and Allie is on the team. No one else in America is beating her. Not only that, she can run sub-32:00 for 10,000m.

Sally, you're wasting your talent with 85 mile weeks. All that slogging is nothing when you could be competing with Joanie.

mooonshot wrote:

SallyVix has shown her age in not understanding social marketing.

Allie is at $60k/year. She has an established fan base and is the #4 American steeplchaser behind Freirichs, Coburn, and Quigley. One injury to one of those unicorns and Allie is on the team. No one else in America is beating her. Not only that, she can run sub-32:00 for 10,000m.

Sally, you're wasting your talent with 85 mile weeks. All that slogging is nothing when you could be competing with Joanie.

Past age 35 with no Olympic &/or W.C. dreams, runners log high mileage for psychological reasons.

It's not "anecdotal evidence" when saying exactly what happened to the athlete in question. High mileage has injured Allie in the past. She never got hurt steeplechasing.

Speed training does not cause injuries. That is a lie that JV coaches spread. If you or your athletes are getting hurt by speed training, you aren't doing it right.

What you need to realize is that some people will never be able to handle 100+ miles per week which is necessary for marathon training and ultra training.

Speed is necessary but more likely to produce injury than mileage.

I could completely turn around what you said and say just the opposite. 100 mile weeks will only get you hurt if you are doing them wrong.

Chiming in wrote:

Speed is necessary but more likely to produce injury than mileage.

I could completely turn around what you said and say just the opposite. 100 mile weeks will only get you hurt if you are doing them wrong.

Or born wrong.

You really think that everyone in the world could handle 100 mpw if done 'right'?

Dbka wrote:

Guessing same reason she went to Boise state - she beats to her own drum. Doesn’t need the big group or the big name - it’s by for everyone

+1.

I'm secretly rooting for the theory that Brooks is going to unveil a great trail shoe and Allie O is going to be the face of it.

lol....nope wrote:

Chiming in wrote:

Speed is necessary but more likely to produce injury than mileage.

I could completely turn around what you said and say just the opposite. 100 mile weeks will only get you hurt if you are doing them wrong.

Or born wrong.

You really think that everyone in the world could handle 100 mpw if done 'right'?

The question is moot. If she was going to run longer distances Brooks would of sent her to Hansons. Shorter distances Beasts. If an athlete wants to run the marathon the Beasts aren’t interested. If an athlete is interested in 5000 and below the Hansons aren’t interested.

Brooks insider wrote:

lol....nope wrote:

Or born wrong.

You really think that everyone in the world could handle 100 mpw if done 'right'?

The question is moot. If she was going to run longer distances Brooks would of sent her to Hansons. Shorter distances Beasts. If an athlete wants to run the marathon the Beasts aren’t interested. If an athlete is interested in 5000 and below the Hansons aren’t interested.

it's also not a static choice. Even if aiming for the marathon long term, it's not a good target for 2020. Her goal is Tokyo and best chance for that is in the steeple/5k/10k, so joining a marathon group now makes zero sense.

then.....win Boston in 2023, and then make Olympic Marathon team for 2024. You heard it hear.