"years ago Alberto Salazar's lawyer asked for info on over 100 posters on the forums" - wejo

wouldn't blame him wrote:

There have been lots of posts on here regarding NOP that are flat out libel. I don't like Salazar, but I can't say he would have been wrong to take action against the individuals who created those posts.

It is one thing to post a negative opinion or a suspicion, but if you post an accusation that you purport to be fact and it is false or not supportable by evidence, you should face the consequences.

I hope Coevett is reading your post, he is a regular offender obsessed with discrediting El G. One of these days he is gonna get sued.

The Nike Androgen Project wrote:

Is there any legal precedent for a message board poster being sued successfully for libel? What about in a case in which there are high profile accusations from former insiders, numerous stories in prominent newspapers, and official investigations alleging the same illegal conduct?

Seems like we're on pretty solid legal footing when we repeat published allegations, but I'd love to hear from some lawyers if I'm wrong.

I would say there are at least 13 million reasons to stay clear from your "pretty solid footing". Defending these suits ain't cheap either. See below. I'll see if I find more cases.

doctorj wrote:

wouldn't blame him wrote:

There have been lots of posts on here regarding NOP that are flat out libel. I don't like Salazar, but I can't say he would have been wrong to take action against the individuals who created those posts.

It is one thing to post a negative opinion or a suspicion, but if you post an accusation that you purport to be fact and it is false or not supportable by evidence, you should face the consequences.

I hope Coevett is reading your post, he is a regular offender obsessed with discrediting El G. One of these days he is gonna get sued.

Yeah, yeah, bring it on pal. All the people - including yourself - who have made slanderous accusations of doping against the lies of Coe and Ovett, on no evidence at all, and it would be El G who sues somebody here, even though there must be at least 100 posters here who have accused him (and would be more than 100, but many don't bother stating the obvious).

El G isn't actually a snowflake and has never to my knowledge denied taking drugs, rather he states that his success wasn't down to drugs (ie, everybody was on them and he trained harder).

There is no way El G could successfully bring a libel action on the matter of EPO doping in the 90's, given that it's widely known that elites were doping themselves silly with the stuff and he was the most dominant champion. If most informed people agree with the statement of the 'libeler' it's not libel (under UK and most other country's laws).

I don't have much of a problem with El G. It's the freaks here who think he was a far greater runner than the legends before him for running faster when he had the benefits of EPO inside of him.

Remember that you're supposed to be a licensed physician and you regularly boast here of maiming people in the street.

Coevett wrote:

doctorj wrote:

I hope Coevett is reading your post, he is a regular offender obsessed with discrediting El G. One of these days he is gonna get sued.

Yeah, yeah, bring it on pal. All the people - including yourself - who have made slanderous accusations of doping against the lies of Coe and Ovett

Finally Coevett acknowledges the deception of Coe and Ovett.

wouldn't blame him wrote:

It is one thing to post a negative opinion or a suspicion, but if you post an accusation that you purport to be fact and it is false or not supportable by evidence, you should face the consequences.

Study up on the law, how about. Only "false statements of fact" can be libel in the US. It is not possible to prove any doping allegation false.

The fact NOP and its members are public figures raises the bar even higher, but the impossibility of proving someone clean is enough.

doctorj wrote:

I would say there are at least 13 million reasons to stay clear from your "pretty solid footing". See below. I'll see if I find more cases.

Soon after that linked article was written there were zero reasons again. But for the record, I have no evidence that anyone associated with Nike molests children, no matter what kind of gel Alberto may have admitted to rubbing on his boys.

I’m sure I’ve missed posts over the years, but I don’t recall ever seeing anything that would count as libel on these topics.

Saying, “so and so is a dirty cheating doper” isn’t libel because it’s obviously an expression of opinion based on facts. For instance, nobody is posting that they saw Rupp inject himself with EPO. They’re saying that based on known facts, the obvious conclusion is that various people are dirty.

800 dude wrote:

I’m sure I’ve missed posts over the years, but I don’t recall ever seeing anything that would count as libel on these topics.

Saying, “so and so is a dirty cheating doper” isn’t libel because it’s obviously an expression of opinion based on facts. For instance, nobody is posting that they saw Rupp inject himself with EPO. They’re saying that based on known facts, the obvious conclusion is that various people are dirty.

No. "I believe X to be a doper" is a statement of opinion. "X is a doper" is a statement of fact.

atrackandfieldfan wrote:

In that statement, Wejo does not appear to deny handing over any information about the 100+ posters. I'm curious if there is any statement wherein this site's owners elucidate how exactly they handled this matter.

Again, this story has been told for years, and plenty of those times they have said that they did not hand over the info.

Bad Wigins wrote:

wouldn't blame him wrote:

It is one thing to post a negative opinion or a suspicion, but if you post an accusation that you purport to be fact and it is false or not supportable by evidence, you should face the consequences.

Study up on the law, how about. Only "false statements of fact" can be libel in the US. It is not possible to prove any doping allegation false.

The fact NOP and its members are public figures raises the bar even higher, but the impossibility of proving someone clean is enough.

It is not possible for a person to prove that they have never molested a child. Does this mean that I can publicly accuse people of being child molesters without fear of legal recourse?

It's not slander if it isn't spoken either, libel is the term for written/published and there are guidelines on what "publishing" is taken to mean.

wouldn't blame him wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

Study up on the law, how about. Only "false statements of fact" can be libel in the US. It is not possible to prove any doping allegation false.

The fact NOP and its members are public figures raises the bar even higher, but the impossibility of proving someone clean is enough.

It is not possible for a person to prove that they have never molested a child. Does this mean that I can publicly accuse people of being child molesters without fear of legal recourse?

The only "proof" you need in a civil case is admissible evidence that convinces a jury that they should find for the plaintiff by a preponderance of the evidence. NOP athletes would be able to testify that they didn't do drugs and put into evidence all the drug tests they have passed. If the defendant fails to come up with sufficient evidence to convince the jury that the doping allegations are true, then the NOP athletes could win if they show that the defendant knew the allegations were false or acted with reckless disregard for the truth (presuming that the NOP athletes were found to be public figures). That usually depends on circumstantial evidence and can be a difficult hurdle for a defamation plaintiff.

In real life, defamation claims are usually a very bad legal strategy because the plaintiff will have to respond to very probing discovery and may put themselves in a position where they look worse after the lawsuit is over because of all the dirt that comes out. I would suspect that NOP was looking for former coaches and employees who were violating confidentiality/NDAs instead of looking to drag a 15 year old XC nerd into court.

tell the truth now wrote:

The secret to NOP's success is:

1. Recruiting top natural athletes, who can

2. Handle extreme workloads, and

3. Making sure the athletes are religious about recovery

4. Cross training

5. Injury prevention - unbroken strings of training

6. Cryo-sauna, altitude tents, and all the other recovery "gimmicks" that are well very well known and engaged by many other athletes now.

What an idiotic post. Salazar's runners are actually among the worst for injury and burnout. Aside from Rupp, you have Cain and Levins who nearly had their careers destroyed by Salazar's "religious about recovery" and "injury prevention" approaches.

Also, among your little list, you forgot thyroid supplementation without a valid medical indication, which nearly the ENTIRE TEAM takes to keep weight off.

You also forgot Rupp's "testosterone medication", documented by Salazar in his notes on Rupp, never specificied as to the actual drug taken.

You also forgot the illegal L-carnitine injections, etc. Hi, shill.

As an MD, I cannot emphasize how beyond the pale it is for a "doctor" like Jeffrey Brown to falsify medical records. (As a "prescriber" of bogus thyroid supplementation and L-carnitine injections.)

The Nike Androgen Project wrote:

Is there any legal precedent for a message board poster being sued successfully for libel? What about in a case in which there are high profile accusations from former insiders, numerous stories in prominent newspapers, and official investigations alleging the same illegal conduct?

Seems like we're on pretty solid legal footing when we repeat published allegations, but I'd love to hear from some lawyers if I'm wrong.

This is the closest I can recall...

Not sure it would be a good look in the public opinion of NOP if Salazar ever actually took legal action against random internet posters. If anything it give the wild claims some legitimacy.

Wonder if he and Cap are after me as well. Break my knees or something.

I started a thread years ago, actually more making fun of letsrun trolls, regarding AlSal's comments on message board rats in his book. That said, not a fan of that wing of the Nike team.

fact vs opinion wrote:

800 dude wrote:

I’m sure I’ve missed posts over the years, but I don’t recall ever seeing anything that would count as libel on these topics.

Saying, “so and so is a dirty cheating doper” isn’t libel because it’s obviously an expression of opinion based on facts. For instance, nobody is posting that they saw Rupp inject himself with EPO. They’re saying that based on known facts, the obvious conclusion is that various people are dirty.

No. "I believe X to be a doper" is a statement of opinion. "X is a doper" is a statement of fact.

Statements are not evaluated in a vacuum. It’s clear from context that people are expressing an opinion, albeit with a lot of confidence. For instance, if a public figure is seen dating people much, much younger, someone might say, “he’s a pedo.” That’s not slander unless the person is implying knowledge of something beyond what’s known fact, even though a true unfounded accusation of pedophilia would absolutely be slander.

“X is a doper” isn’t even an unambiguous statement of fact, even when taken out of context. Some people consider taking synthroid to be doping, even if medically indicated. Now, I am all for standing up for words having meaning. For instance, I think it’s ridiculous to call vaporfly wearers cheaters. But that doesn’t mean that the people who do call them cheaters are committing slander.

The legal system appropriately does not enforce debatable semantic propositions or general rules of civil discourse.

He's Filthy wrote:

tell the truth now wrote:

The secret to NOP's success is:

1. Recruiting top natural athletes, who can

2. Handle extreme workloads, and

3. Making sure the athletes are religious about recovery

4. Cross training

5. Injury prevention - unbroken strings of training

6. Cryo-sauna, altitude tents, and all the other recovery "gimmicks" that are well very well known and engaged by many other athletes now.

1. Recruiting athletes with low moral character, who will

2. Take whatever PED cocktail is thrown at them, and

3. Making sure the athletes sign a NDA

4. Laughable TUEs up the yinyang

5. Getting the inside dope on doping from besties like Lance

6. Using your own kid as a dope threshold guinea pig

I think it's hilarious that you think these guys are "doping", using drugs like EPO and human growth hormone etc. They are straddling the line of legal and have not been caught of anything. They using L-Carnitine and Tues and getting tested on an insanely regular basis. Salazar would have to be the dumbest coach on earth to use that stuff with how much scrutiny and doubt and hate he gets.

And I don't think he's dumb, because he's coached a bunch of athletes to incredibly results.

Has there been a day where you slow your brain down and actually think about the facts and reality of the situation for these athletes? You haven't actually considered it aside from, "guilty guilty guilty." Sit down and write it out and I think you'll find that you have opinions and hearsay only.

Please take this to heart......Do some of your own thinking for just a few minutes and you'll realize you really don't know a thing about the situation.

What athletes do you even cheer for that you think are clean?! ...because from where I'm sitting, I have zero proof that EVERY athlete I watch compete is clean because I don't have access to every second of every day when they could be cheating.