Official 2019 Western States 100 Live Discussion Thread

Good post. Of note, Browning's time is faster than all but one of Scott Jurek's Western States wins. For a long time, sub 16 hour was viewed at the race as, well, akin to how sub 15 is viewed now. [The first two times Jim ran WS, his goal was to break 14 hours. Yes, that took hubris, but the naysayers can now see that it's eminently doable (I don't mean that it will necessarily happen soon) by a talented runner on a good day.]

SteelTownRunner wrote:

say it ain't so wrote:

Could it be that Courtney is also overrated?

Not really. I would say the hype around her is often misstated, but she is one of the most versatile ultrarunners on the planet, who has produced world class results on runnable trails, mountain trails, 24 hrs, and multidays (the trail 200s she's run as well as the Big Backyard Ultra). Her worst 24 hr once she established herself as elite (mid low 14X miles) was still, if memory serves, (marginally) more than Ann Trason ran in 24 hours.

The few other such versatile runners that come to mind (several men) are what I would call national class talent, and Courtney can be competitive with them at those respective events.

And it’s not like Courtney drops from a lot of races. I have seen documentaries/interviews with her where she says she enjoys pushing through the pain cave. That’s when I figured whatever happened yesterday must have been something she could not push through. Then saw her IG post today:

Was bummed bc she was doing so well and for sure thought she would win. Happy for Clare though

100 mile race. Anything can happen. Lots of things out of your control that you can’t prepare your body for. In a 100 mile race the line between first place and DNF is razor thin and composed mostly of this substance called luck. In other words this doesn’t have any bearing on Courtney’s abilities.

The female's race was incredible! Clare Gallagher hit record splits from 94-No Hands Bridge (96.8)..she surged hard enough to drop Brittany Patterson, 94 miles into a race. Nearly hit a sub 8 minute mile the last mile, after a 7:30ish section to drop 2nd place. I can't even fathom. Just wow.

Yeah that’sright wrote:

Tro67 wrote:

And it’s not like Courtney drops from a lot of races. I have seen documentaries/interviews with her where she says she enjoys pushing through the pain cave. That’s when I figured whatever happened yesterday must have been something she could not push through. Then saw her IG post today:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzVredTAlIX/?igshid=2zfehgepv07n

Was bummed bc she was doing so well and for sure thought she would win. Happy for Clare though

100 mile race. Anything can happen. Lots of things out of your control that you can’t prepare your body for. In a 100 mile race the line between first place and DNF is razor thin and composed mostly of this substance called luck. In other words this doesn’t have any bearing on Courtney’s abilities.

Yes it does. She has been observed limping in other events (that she's done well in). Eventually if you run with bad form enough you WILL get injured. You can't go on the idea that these injuries will not affect your career. The hip is crucial, to have it go out on you is indicating a very big problem. Loss of range of motion and probably bone damage.

Old time ultra runner wrote:

weather FTW wrote:

If by ultra specialists you mean people who can't even run a 2:30 marathon, lol yes that will be a thing of the past. ultra is finally getting some real talent.

There always have been sub 2:30 ultrarunners. Yiannis Kouros was one of them. Don Ritchie another one (2:17ish I believe) he made 100 milers fast before they got invented by some lame horses at Western States.

Traditional ultra runners are missing the data points that are piling up hot and heavy now. A TRUE 2:30 guy at best isn't capable of running 14:09 not even close with some extra buffer in between. That's not the only thing. Think whatever sub 100 mile popular ultra races that have had their course records go down. We got "real horses" in ultras now, not the traditional lame horses :) since you mentioned it. These guys aren't chatting for the first 30 miles and taking it easy until the real race starts so to speak or as they speak. The race starts at mile 0 and that's a good thing.

Goucher Needles wrote:

I think Western should change from having the top ten automatically return, to the top three. The current policy discourages racing IMHO. You shouldn’t get to automatically return by finishing two hours behind the winner.

That makes no sense. Of course the top 10 should be invited back each year.

1.5 cents wrote:

Tro67 wrote:

And it’s not like Courtney drops from a lot of races. I have seen documentaries/interviews with her where she says she enjoys pushing through the pain cave. That’s when I figured whatever happened yesterday must have been something she could not push through. Then saw her IG post today:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzVredTAlIX/?igshid=2zfehgepv07n

Was bummed bc she was doing so well and for sure thought she would win. Happy for Clare though

The female's race was incredible! Clare Gallagher hit record splits from 94-No Hands Bridge (96.8)..she surged hard enough to drop Brittany Patterson, 94 miles into a race. Nearly hit a sub 8 minute mile the last mile, after a 7:30ish section to drop 2nd place. I can't even fathom. Just wow.

I love this picture. It's like they are laughing at the LRC trolls who are inevitably going to comment on the "ultrawalking".

weather FTW wrote:

Old time ultra runner wrote:

There always have been sub 2:30 ultrarunners. Yiannis Kouros was one of them. Don Ritchie another one (2:17ish I believe) he made 100 milers fast before they got invented by some lame horses at Western States.

Traditional ultra runners are missing the data points that are piling up hot and heavy now. A TRUE 2:30 guy at best isn't capable of running 14:09 not even close with some extra buffer in between. That's not the only thing. Think whatever sub 100 mile popular ultra races that have had their course records go down. We got "real horses" in ultras now, not the traditional lame horses :) since you mentioned it. These guys aren't chatting for the first 30 miles and taking it easy until the real race starts so to speak or as they speak. The race starts at mile 0 and that's a good thing.

Walmsley wasn't who that post was referring to.

Just remember, Max King, Mike Wardian, David Laney, Sage, and other sub 2:20 guys haven't aced Western, nor come close to. Dylan Bowman, def not a sub 2:30 guy passed Max King late in the race for a podium spot, 5 years ago.

Rob Krar like 15 years ago ran Boston and was 2:25, he ran a 14:48 in a brutally hot 2015, other OTQ runners haven't touched that time minus this year. Who knows what Jared Hazen's road marathon time is, and he went 14:26 yesterday, to take 2nd place! Decade ago, that was unfathomable until Tim Olson broke the sub 15 hour mark in 2012.

Top end times are evolving, but all things relative, yesterday's WS conditions were a racer's utopia. Had every top 10 guy competed in last year conditions, times and placings very well could have looked much different.

There are SO many variables across 100 miles. I love what yesterday displayed though. Got the imagination running with human performance, that's for sure.

Regarding Courtney, it was in her control whatever is that happened to her. Meaning, how she reacted. Scott Jurek had a severe sprained ankle in 2001 and did not drop from the race. He went on to win and solidify his 3-peat there. Jurek sprained his ankle before Hardrock one year; a few days prior. He started the race and won in record time. Ultimately, the person is in complete control. It's all up to you how you react to adversity. On the other side of adversity is a person you didn't know that existed within you.

You must rule the mind or the mind will rule you. wrote:

Regarding Courtney, it was in her control whatever is that happened to her. Meaning, how she reacted. Scott Jurek had a severe sprained ankle in 2001 and did not drop from the race. He went on to win and solidify his 3-peat there. Jurek sprained his ankle before Hardrock one year; a few days prior. He started the race and won in record time. Ultimately, the person is in complete control. It's all up to you how you react to adversity. On the other side of adversity is a person you didn't know that existed within you.

Sometimes it's actually wise to stop running. Courtney just did that. It's not like she is having a lot of DNF's like that other runner I can think of.

You must rule the mind or the mind will rule you. wrote:

Regarding Courtney, it was in her control whatever is that happened to her. Meaning, how she reacted. Scott Jurek had a severe sprained ankle in 2001 and did not drop from the race. He went on to win and solidify his 3-peat there. Jurek sprained his ankle before Hardrock one year; a few days prior. He started the race and won in record time. Ultimately, the person is in complete control. It's all up to you how you react to adversity. On the other side of adversity is a person you didn't know that existed within you.

One guy one time pushed thru pain. Ergo every runner who doesn’t do the same isn’t as worthy? Also we are talking about completely different injuries here. Who knows how serious her injury is vs jureks. She had just run 80 frickin miles. Sometimes you just get injured doing that and you can’t push thru it. There’s a limit to mind over matter.

Sometimes mind over matter is just not that smart.

If it's a real injury you probably should stop running. If you still can run and win a race it probably was more a niggle than a real injury.

This is what is wrong with today's runners. There is always a limit. There is always tomorrow. Maybe I need to take it easy. Maybe I've done enough. That is why American runners lag behind the East Africans. The mind has no limit. The only limit is the limit you believe in. Mind over matter, always. Either you want it or you don't. From there, you create your own reality and excuses to quit.

Go ahead and point out an east african female that holds or held 100 mile track records and is competive at 200 mile races.

Thought so.

Either you want it or you don't. wrote:

This is what is wrong with today's runners. There is always a limit. There is always tomorrow. Maybe I need to take it easy. Maybe I've done enough. That is why American runners lag behind the East Africans. The mind has no limit. The only limit is the limit you believe in. Mind over matter, always. Either you want it or you don't. From there, you create your own reality and excuses to quit.

BS

East Africans use Marathon running to escape from very basic life conditions. There is a huge competition. A lot of them are not making it and even a lot of very successful runners have lost their fortune after a couple of years.

Here in the US everybody runs for fun. Some make some money with it but it is probably not enough to make a lifelong career out of it. Especially not in ultrarunning.

And yes there are limits. if you haven't seen them for yourself you just haven't pushed enough. And I don't mean the keyboard.

And how many ultrarunning East Africans are out there?

The limit for them seems to be the Marathon.

Old time ultra runner wrote:

weather FTW wrote:

If by ultra specialists you mean people who can't even run a 2:30 marathon, lol yes that will be a thing of the past. ultra is finally getting some real talent.

There always have been sub 2:30 ultrarunners. Yiannis Kouros was one of them. Don Ritchie another one (2:17ish I believe) he made 100 milers fast before they got invented by some lame horses at Western States.

More myth busting here

http://ultrarunninghistory.com/28-western-states-myths/

These things need context. Kouros was a 2:24 marathoner but if we were to have an accurate version of McMillan Running Calculator for ultras, Kouros was a guy who managed to hit his potential for every distance beyond the marathon from 100km and up. Few people can do that.

Don Ritchie's marathon PB was indeed 2:17, but that came when he was past his prime, and there were fewer marathons to race.

In some ways real speed is new to ultras, and in others, it's been there for a while. Walmsley & Co are showing what proper speed with proper training can do at races like WS (though he also showed back in April how good the 50 mi and 100km WRs are and why they lasted so long).

matt carpenter is god wrote:

Mocko needs to retire. I wonder what he'll say? He'll say: I'm too big for this. Bro, you are not that tall.

I’m almost 6’-2” and I’m pretty sure Mocko is taller than me.

He was a pretty good steepler in college. And has run 1:06 and 2:22 I believe.

He should focus on 50k’s

Nuggets of mold wrote:

matt carpenter is god wrote:

Mocko needs to retire. I wonder what he'll say? He'll say: I'm too big for this. Bro, you are not that tall.

I’m almost 6’-2” and I’m pretty sure Mocko is taller than me.

He was a pretty good steepler in college. And has run 1:06 and 2:22 I believe.

He should focus on 50k’s

Mocko is 6'2" and if you are almost 6'2" then, yes, he is taller than you.