2:19 on 70-80 miles per week.

The LT-pace is about 6-8 sec / 400m slower than maxVO2-pace ( 5 k race pace). LSD ( Long Steady Distance ) pace is about at 70-75 % of MHR. This I use to call aerobic power pace.A pace that is roughly 1 min slower/km than 10 km race pace .

All you have to worry about when running intervals is to run the maxVO2 5 k race pace and LT-pace up to your present shape, and the recovery to get back to 120 bpm before next rep starts. Simple! Good luck! :)

seb or peter coe said this or that wrote:

Your coach wrote:

And he (or if it was Seb?) also said the world is full of runners that can run hugh amount of miles,but very few can run their miles really fast.

"Run as much miles as I did and you'll learn the secret of running, but I can't guarantee you'll win in Olympics."- Lasse Viren

Viren could not do sh&t non-Olympic years without unethical blood boost. Didn't Viren race last 600m sub-82.5 in three of four Olympic 5000m & 10000m gold medal performances? Those finishes from a man not capable of a clean sub-1:50 800m. Viren is no athlete to copy.

The biggest key for me balancing running and family has been waking up each workday ( 4:00am) before the family wakes up and getting my run done. Last year I ran after work right at 5 and it caused a lot of resentment. My wife stays at home with the kids, so she is in desperate need for a break. Continuing to walk out the door right away to run everyday, especially after the second child would probably lead to a divorce.

I am also very focused. Besides family and work, running is about the only thing I do. I try to get to bed around 9:30 and probably only average about 6 hrs of sleep total. I’m always on the edge to try to get enough recovery and I can’t afford to dig myself into a hole or I’ll break down. I also quit drinking about a year ago. It wasn’t really intentional, but it just kept making me feel very sick and I was tired of feeling terrible. My running comeback really turned around after that.

Before I was only doing two quality days a week on my days off. Usually tue and Thur so it actually worked out pretty well for workouts. Going forward I’m going to shoot for 3 quality days. Right now I’m thinking tue, Thur, and Saturday evening after the kids go to bed (7:30ish). If I do an evening workout I’ll most likely take the next day off.

It can be hard at times to have so little free time for friends, other hobbies, and chores around the house, but trying to become an athlete again has brought so much joy into my life. It gives me something each day that gets me excited. I had fully excepted that I was never going to be a runner again. I was destined for 50 hr weeks and trying to fill the void with yard work and alcohol. I am just so happy to be running again that the results are very secondary. It’s funny how that approach can lead to better results.

That's quite interesting. The LSD is quite a bit higher % than what I've been doing.

Thanks much for the clarifications.

It can. Totally. Obv it depends on the individual.

I coach a guy who just ran 2:16:25 at Grandma's. He ran mostly in the 80's, with 3 weeks at ~90 and several weeks below 80.

He'd run only one other marathon (the last OT), rather slow, and then took a year off to work and drink some beer.

The primary goal was to keep him healthy, and keep training enjoyable. The marathon block was ~14 weeks, with the specific stuff in the last 8 weeks. He'd built his volume up very, very slowly since Jan 1, and had no real days off from injury. He averaged one faster workout (~10K to ~HM effort, e.g. 6-7x 1K + 4-5x 500) and one long run/workout (with ~marathon to ~HM efforts), doubles a few days a week, lots of strides and short hill reps. Super, super simple. I tried to give him the least amount of work possible to achieve the goal. He stayed healthy, happy and got stronger and faster each week.

It worked well. Next time around, we'll need bigger volumes likely, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

@Below Average: Agreed, and essentially the same schedule as me. 4:00am weekday alarms (with the occasional “best 9 mins of sleep I had all night” snooze option), daily core work, workout or easy run, shower at the local gym (so as not to return home and awake sleeping beauty and/or the sleeping giant), head to work 7:30-5:30, head home and relieve mama (start of my second job), kiddo dinner, playtime, bath, & bed by 8:30, then finally finish up with adult dinner & relaxation until 9:30, pack for next day, and bed by 10. (Repeat x5). Saturday’s are my day “off” designated for #DaddyDuty from essentially sun up to sun down, followed by 5:00am Sunday long runs.

@SUPERIOR COACH JS: Training for me is scheduled on a weekly basis based on the week prior, how I am feeling, what races I have coming up, etc. Currently the training outline for me is to focus on light 5k-10k fitness for the remainder of the summer, nothing crazy just staying relaxed, staying as fresh as possible and having fun with a few races until the buildup starts late Aug-early Sept for CIM. Hitting anywhere from 45-60 mpw now with speed work (5k/3k) on Tuesdays, strength on Thursdays (LT/Tempo runs), and stamina on Sundays (14-16mi starting easy and progressing down to a good effort- some days 5:40s other days 6:00 might be my limit). *I live in the south where heat & humidity are not ideal for training. CIM buildup plan includes mileage peak of 80-85 (90 if possible) with similar mix of workouts, but slowly adjust the emphasis throughout training more toward marathon specific work as we approach the race. Also pretty simple and effective training.

Sample week:

M: 6-8 miles easy

T: 8-10 miles with track speed (6x1k @5k pace, 200jog)

W: 6-10 miles easy

R: 8-10 miles with progressive threshold run (6:30...5:30 pace; 5:50 avg)

F: 6-8 miles easy

S: off

S: 14-15 miles long run (alternating easy vs moderate each week)

Total: 48-60 miles

Nice job done giancarlo! Congrats to that :)

"Next time around, we`ll need bigger volumes likely......" Within this quote there is , according to me, a thought error that many runners and coaches do. They think there is a must for more miles to run faster when in fact it`s just a matter of pace .

Here is a planned sample CIM training week for me later this fall. Follows the same theory/routine as I am doing now, but simply increases the total volume, shifts speed/strength paces toward longer distances, and includes marathon specific long runs. I’m sure there is more behind it than this, and we could very well take a different approach. I trust in what I am doing so we will just see how it shakes out!

M: 10-12 miles easy

T: 12-13 miles with speed intervals (5k-10k paces)

W: 14-15 miles moderate

R: 12-13 miles with strength (LT-HM paces)

F: 10-12 miles easy

S: off (or 6-8 miles easy if possible)

S: 16-22 miles long runs building up slowly with marathon specific work included

Total: 74-87 (or 80-95)

Viren sans nitro ... wrote:

seb or peter coe said this or that wrote:

"Run as much miles as I did and you'll learn the secret of running, but I can't guarantee you'll win in Olympics."- Lasse Viren

Viren could not do sh&t non-Olympic years without unethical blood boost. Didn't Viren race last 600m sub-82.5 in three of four Olympic 5000m & 10000m gold medal performances? Those finishes from a man not capable of a clean sub-1:50 800m. Viren is no athlete to copy.

Full of sh!t, no proof viren blood doped.

BelowAverage: It can be done. I could not have done it as I did not have your talent (2:50 marathoner) I did have an incredibly busy schedule so I was limited and kept my miles in the 70-75 range while only running singles. You cannot discount the high number of individual runs of 10+ miles - builds strength and the marathon is a strength race.

Due to your schedule and the lower mileage for your goal, I feel your best bet is to run singles. Here is how I would do it: I would break the training down into an "A Week" and a "B Week"

Easy = run how you feel that day (6:30-7:45)

A Week

Mon: 8 miles easy

Tues: 12 miles easy with 8 20 sec. strides at the end of the run

Wed: 2 warm up, 6 @ tempo pace, 2 cool down

Thur: 12 miles easy with 8 20 sec. strides at the end of the run

Fri: 2 warm up, 4X1600M @ 5K pace with a 4-5 min. rec., 2 cool down (track)

Sat: 6 very easy

Sun: Long Run (eventually this should be in the 20-24 mile range, I would get at least 8 long runs in)

78-82 Miles

B Week

Mon: Off or and easy 6 mile shake out

Tues: 12 miles easy with 8 20 sec. strides at the end of the run

Wed: 12 miles easy

Thur: 2 warm up, 8X1K at slightly slower than 5K pace (3 min. recovery) 2 cool down (track)

Fri: 12 miles easy

Sat: 6 very easy

Sun: Marathon Pace Run: 2 easy, 8-13 @ 5:20 (eventually work up to 13 but I would do at least 5 of these at 11+ miles) 2 cool down

67-74 miles

Good luck!!

Viren FTW wrote:

Viren sans nitro ... wrote:

Viren could not do sh&t non-Olympic years without unethical blood boost. Didn't Viren race last 600m sub-82.5 in three of four Olympic 5000m & 10000m gold medal performances? Those finishes from a man not capable of a clean sub-1:50 800m. Viren is no athlete to copy.

Full of sh!t, no proof viren blood doped.

Poster, the truth hurts. I guarantee you were twelve years old or younger in 1976. Everyone over age fifty knows Viren was dirty. Oh! It was the 150 miles per week and Fartlek training which enabled Viren to be superman in 1972 & 1976.

Thanks much.

And I agree with you. I'm certainly not thinking about dropping him into 120 mile weeks and crossing my fingers that he emerges unscathed. He works, and is pretty social, so those are things we take into account. The wise road is to consider which variables need adding or subtracting to achieve the same goals, and then if we need to add something, we would add the least amount necessary. To repeat what he just did adds no stimulus, and my initial thought is the safest path forward would be to have, say, 95 miles as the high water mark v. 90 miles. Big picture/long term/global view kinda stuff.

I reckon there were maybe three workouts which really made him really, really go to work. (He might say otherwise.) That's not to say the workouts were easy. Each workout was very doable for him on that day. I don't subscribe to the idea that a single workout requires you to "see what you're made of."

Once the Central Texas heat arrived, we would alter some workouts on the fly. If the workout was written for 4-5x 2 miles, or whatever, and the morning was hot and humid, we might say instead, let's do 4-5x 10 minutes, and remove the distance variable in the time + distance + effort equation.

Viren sans nitro wrote:

Poster, the truth hurts.

Yeah, apparently the truth hurts you.

I'm in my 70's, have always liked Viren and so does my best friend the same age.

Viren was smart, trained hard, and I'm convinced that he had no reason to use any drugs.

Only stupid people like you think doping's an easy way out.

Viren sans nitro wrote:

Viren FTW wrote:

Full of sh!t, no proof viren blood doped.

Poster, the truth hurts. I guarantee you were twelve years old or younger in 1976. Everyone over age fifty knows Viren was dirty. Oh! It was the 150 miles per week and Fartlek training which enabled Viren to be superman in 1972 & 1976.

Again, no proof.

Viren FTW wrote:

Viren sans nitro wrote:

Poster, the truth hurts. I guarantee you were twelve years old or younger in 1976. Everyone over age fifty knows Viren was dirty. Oh! It was the 150 miles per week and Fartlek training which enabled Viren to be superman in 1972 & 1976.

Again, no proof.

Why die on Hill Viren? Start your own Viren was clean thread or go back ten years or go back fifteen years on let's run. You're hijacking this thread stating Viren was clean.

Why die ... wrote:

...... waaaa.... waaa.... i want my mommy's bottle .... waaaaa......

Go away.

I will be posting some of them in the coming weeks. In a few days I will be posting Isaac Kimeli's program towards his silver medal in EU XC 2018 where he lost the gold from Filip Ingebrigtsen in a sprint-finish.

Why die ... wrote:

Viren FTW wrote:

Again, no proof.

Why die on Hill Viren? Start your own Viren was clean thread or go back ten years or go back fifteen years on let's run. You're hijacking this thread stating Viren was clean.

You're the one hijacking this thread by making false accusations against one of the greatest runners of all time.

HRE wrote:

Genetic characteristics are usually distributed randomly among sufficiently large populations. A group of 10,000 will have more people who have blue eyes or are at least six feet tall than a group of 1,000 will have so the largest group doing the minimum amount of adequate training should be producing the most winners and high placers.

In addition to being a hobby trail runner, i'm a hobby armchair scientist, and with all due respect to your training expertise, i still have to give you a 1/10 on this call. First genetics aren't really random, even among sufficiently large populations.

But more importantly running 100 miles+ per week requires:

- quite a bit of available time

- really wanting to reach full potential

I do think both of them come easier if you have potential to turn pro and have special schedulled arranged because of it or don't have to work a full time job.

In addition, someone who is pro or sponsored or on scholarship will for sure have some pressure to at least look like he his putting the hard work.

Which can arguably ( actually not, but that conclusion isn't scientifically worse than yours) be translated into something like "people with talent are more likely to end up running more miles".

That being said, i have full on respect for your trainning knowledge and have been tremendously enjoying this thread so far, thanks to the very high quality of the posters (including you and excluding me). Please keep it up! Oh and remember the OP's question was more specifically what can be done on lower milage than is lower milage as good as big milage.