2:19 on 70-80 miles per week.

Thank you for adding so much value in this topic :)...

I am a fan of Arthur Lydiard his approach but I only took the things that matter. The fact that you seem to believe 100% in an approach that is at least 20 years old know says it all. We are in 2019 my friend and luckly have much more knowledge than in the 80's/90's. However Arthur his ways of training were impressive back than!

Read my posts carefully and you will see that I use many things of his philosophy. But I don't agree with a high mileage approach for all. Like I said every athlete is unique...

"2 athletes of mine ran faster than all the athletes in that country: Isaac = 3.37, Stijn 3.38 flat, Japan best: 3.38.12

2 athletes of mine ran faster than all the athletes in that country: Isaac= 13.18, Robin 13.19, Japan best: 13.26.70

You couldn't have picked a better example of why that approach is OK but not the most efficient approach, it focus merely on 1 domaine of the human body => aerobic endurance. While there are many more parameters that play a vital role in running fast. 10K+ training is easy because your aerobic system is the dominant and almost only factor in terms of fysiology. 800-10000m is a different story my friend ;)!"

You don't need to insult I only want to share my knowledge. Do you truly believe Japan doesn't want fast 1500m, 5K runners? I hope you are aware about the Olympics finding place in Tokyo next year...

Read the above again I don't say Japan has no knowledge about training marathonrunners, they have little knowledge about training track athletes.

Do you know why your fastest runner won't be able to compete with the top Kenyans, and Ethiopians? Hint: Haile Gebrselassie ran 10k to school and back growing up. These kids are building up a huge aerobic base while Western kids are sitting on their ass. I wonder why westerners suck.

pro high mileage wrote:

I always liked Van Aaken guideline on how much to run per day:

Race—Training done per day

400 meters— 6 kilometers

800 meters— 10 kilometers

1500 meters— 15 kilometers

3000 meters— 20 kilometers

5000 meters— 25 kilometers

10,000 meters— 30 kilometers

Marathon— 40 kilometers

"He took this to the extreme with his athletes stating that the runner should eat very little, about 2,000 calories per day. "

I hope this is BS

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

And this isn`t a troll job, but for a while I thought the OP was. But he is real.

+1

OlympicRunningTeamCoach wrote:

Do you truly believe Japan doesn't want fast 1500m, 5K runners? I hope you are aware about the Olympics finding place in Tokyo next year...

Read the above again I don't say Japan has no knowledge about training marathonrunners, they have little knowledge about training track athletes.

If you know anything about Japan's running culture, you would know the answer is, no. They only care about the Ekiden(long distance relay) and the marathon. Japan has had 97 runners so far to run under 2:10 for the marathon. Belgium has only had 4 to run under 2:10. I wonder why?

If there was a category for WRs based on mileage per week, Bekele would blow the doors off anyone. He can run 2:06- 2:08 off literally way less than 70-80 miles per week average per year. Look at 2016 in London and Amsterdam when he would have ran 2:07. Only the year before the epic comeback in 2016 he ran probably a few hundred miles at most in 2015(so an average of 1 mile per day at most). When he is fully fit and uninjured and gets up to 125 miles/week he is going to destroy everyone in Tokyo next year and get a WR too.

Alvin Moss wrote:

pro high mileage wrote:

I always liked Van Aaken guideline on how much to run per day:

Race—Training done per day

400 meters— 6 kilometers

800 meters— 10 kilometers

1500 meters— 15 kilometers

3000 meters— 20 kilometers

5000 meters— 25 kilometers

10,000 meters— 30 kilometers

Marathon— 40 kilometers

"He took this to the extreme with his athletes stating that the runner should eat very little, about 2,000 calories per day. "

I hope this is BS

Look up pics of Harald Norpoth.

You are right Ekiden is important but believe me they want to have good athletes at the Olympics next year...

And making comparisons with countries is stupid. Belgium only has 1/10 of their population ;).

And it's true they have a lot of runners sub 2.10, but we have 2 (this year) that run sub 2.08, for the moment Japan has 0.0

Thank you. That’s interesting. Sounds like a very hard workout though. Do you consider LT pace roughly 1 hour race pace then? Is this fast finish at the same pace as your LT reps earlier in the week?

I’d love to know how does the long run vary for different distances like miler, 5k, half and full?

Many thanks.

I am not a troll. I started this thread because my performances have stagnated since March despite training well. I was just looking for inspiration from people that have had success running lower mileage. Every Pr I have ever ran has come after training 100+ mile weeks, so I’m certainly not against high mileage.

I was trying to joke around a bit with the personal stuff. I am quite secure with where I am at in life. I do work 50 hrs a week, I won’t say how much I make, but it’s less than $250,000. I do have 2 young children (9 months, 2.5 yrs), and I have a fantastic wife that I love very much. You can’t have pics.

I do believe 100% that I had the talented to run 2:19 when I was 23. I will be 33 for CIM. Admittedly 2:19 now seems like quite a long shot, but I enjoy attacking the day and shooting for things that seem unlikely.

First, Japan's two fastest 5000m times(excluding number 1 due to NOP) is 13:12 and 13:13.

Herb Elliott ran 3:36 on a cinder track, running all by himself in the 1960 Olympics. Guess what? He ran a lot in the off season. That 3:36 on modern tracks is easily a sub 3:33 or faster. Look at Steve Ovett, 100+ miles a week in the off season. Peter Snell ran 1:44 on a grass track. Easily sub 1:43 on the Monaco track. I could go on and on. But the list of elites who run moderate to high mileage is a lot longer than elites who only run 70 MPW or less.

Henry Rono training:

Go figure, someone who ran 7:32 for 3000m, 13:06 for 5000m, 27:22 for 10000m and 8:05 for the steeplechase, ran a lot.

Hi again! Yes , the LT -pace is the same as in the cruise intervals earlier in the week, roughly 1 hour race pace.

The pace is perfectly individual calibrated and not too hard when you get used to it.

Runners of mile,5 k, 10 k doesn`t need this specific long run and will just run their long run at their best aerobic power pace(LSD) level all the way.

-The Magic Wizard - ))

Pro high mileage wrote:

OlympicRunningTeamCoach wrote:

Japan => LOL

I'm talking about the marathon you moron. Japan doesn't give 2 sh!ts about middle distance events. Your fastest marathoner is 2:14? Japan has produces dozens and dozen sub 2:10 marathoners for a reason.

My fastest marathoner is 2:07 , does that make any difference to you?

Super skinny runners wrote:

Alvin Moss wrote:

"He took this to the extreme with his athletes stating that the runner should eat very little, about 2,000 calories per day. "

I hope this is BS

Look up pics of Harald Norpoth.

If anyone ca chime in on van Aaken's dietary ideas it would be vladmir. I seem to recall a post of his from ages ago that said something like van Aaken was more concerned with your running than you're eating but I may be wrong. At any rate, you shouldn't read too much into Norpth's build regarding his eating. There are some very thin people who just are that way no matter how much they eat. Norpoth was born during WWII and grew up in the years after. Food was very scarce for most Germans in the years right after the war so that could well have been a factor in his build.

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

Pro high mileage wrote:

I'm talking about the marathon you moron. Japan doesn't give 2 sh!ts about middle distance events. Your fastest marathoner is 2:14? Japan has produces dozens and dozen sub 2:10 marathoners for a reason.

My fastest marathoner is 2:07 , does that make any difference to you?

From which country?

My German was ok three (3) years of high school and I used to listen to Learning Lab Speak German in Thirty Days records- yes those black frisbee looking things) at the time, but it really helped me when I met a young lady that was fluent in both. In the past few decades I have seldom used it (German) so most of my speaking is gone, I never concentrated on the reading aspect, however it's like my grasp of both Chinese and Swahili I understand it much better than I speak it. EVA did speak a little of it, but he was very self aware and didn't want to make a public mistake. He would try and he had a sense of humor about it and would often joke about why so many two, to and too or red the color or read the book or why is read not always present or past tense. A great individual and a real loss to the world - not just as a coach.

I'm trying to play catch up on this thread between runs. I think that EVA's eating was forged in what was available at the time. I have or at least used to model my diet after what he seemed to preach (not a word he would have used as he saw him self as anything but a preacher, but as a teacher who wanted the best for the masses). Once again I can't speak for that great mind of his, other than what I learned from him. At that time and still today I still fast for 36 hours every week. I no longer eat as I should, but then again I no longer train as I should. I don't train to race I now train to train. I really enjoy going out there and running (at a slower pace for a shorter distance, but with the same effort). He has instilled that in me and if he and his teachings were available today no way of knowing what the results would be. Like many great man an individual that passed way too soon.

WTF talking about wrote:

Do you know why your fastest runner won't be able to compete with the top Kenyans, and Ethiopians? Hint: Haile Gebrselassie ran 10k to school and back growing up. These kids are building up a huge aerobic base while Western kids are sitting on their ass. I wonder why westerners suck.

Nowadays you seldom see kids running around the roads in Kenya to school.They are not supreme western kids when it comes to aerobic base . But most of them ( Kalenjin and Masai)starts to train running early and there are hundreds of thousands of them who wants to be a new Kipchoge or Rudisha.