Democrat presidential debate official thread

L L wrote:

I think Buttigieg has the best slogan:

Medicare for all who want it

It's concise, it conveys a message and it speaks to everyone.

Right now, everyone that would like Medicare cannot get it.

And people want the choice to keep what they have.

It's a bumper sticker (or a hat)

I love Warren, but paragraph's don't make great slogans.

And Bernie's simple Medicare for All sounds like he's forcing it on people.

I'm still supporting Warren.

Yes, and it hits the GOP where they are STILL vulnerable- healthcare. The way I see it healthcare will be like retirement. It's an option we all pay into, but those of us that chose to buy better still will.

Just like you CAN just rely on SS for your retirement but only the most poor would do so. Most of us go beyond SS and invest in 401ks, IRAs we would do the same for our healthcare.

Every time the GOP has had the chance to do SOMETHING about healthcare they have balked. Could have done something with GWB- nothing, could have with Trump, nothing.

Trump and Bernie are reactions from large swaths of people that feel like they are and have been ignored by "the system". They are angry. When you are angry you don't pick up a wet dishtowel to throw, you throw a rock. Trump and Bernie are the rock.

To dismiss all the Bernie's as "more free stuff!!" is just as disingenuous as dismissing all the people that voted for Trump as "racists". It's lazy and dismissive.

Agreed. It's also asinine to suggest anything is 'free' when people pay 30% of the income in taxes and dont feel like they are getting anything for it. Also, quite absurd to think there isn't plenty of money to go around when the budget for the military and foreign aid is out of control.

L L wrote:

Your math makes sense.

I thought the same thing four years when Trump kept leading with 30-40%.

I figured once 15 or so candidates dropped out that the voters would rally around someone other than Trump.

That's he'd never break 50%.

Once Jeb and Rubio dropped out and it was only Trump, Cruz and Kasich, that's when Trump went over 50%.

I thought the voters would move to Kasich but they moved to Trump.

I still don't understand why that happened. Trump is not a Republican.

I guess being anti Hispanic and Muslim immigrant was more important than being fiscally responsible.

What I am saying is that I don't know who's going to be the nominee.

I agree with you. It will be interesting, because I think Biden stays in at least until SC. So, Bernie probably wins Nevada and has a good shot in SC, while the moderates split the votes. Then, it gets more diluted as Bloomberg enters the race. So, Bernie probably does well on Super Tuesday, and by then he has a huge head of momentum. He will be seen as the leader, and the leader often picks up a lot of votes from the people that drop out. So, I could definitely see Bernie taking the nomination. I may even put his chances at higher than 50% at this point. The only thing that can stop him is if the moderates unite behind a single candidate sooner rather than later. That seems unlikely to me.

you like cheaters then? wrote:

Obama deported more immigrants Than any other president. Google is your friend. You may also realize there are people who are American citizens that are not white.

Yeah, I am one of the American citizens who are not white. Or maybe you don't consider me an American because I was not born here. That would be very Trumpian of you.

And how many LEGAL immigrants did Obama deport? Or maybe you don't even know the difference between legal and illegal immigrants. BTW, Obama was the one who started DACA, in case you have heard of it.

Finally, if you think you are safe because you were born here. I have a big news for you. US born minority Americans have been detained by ICE. Hope you carry your proof of citizenship 24/7. Otherwise you can be detained, too. I carry my passport card in my wallet for self-protection.

UsedToBeKnowItAll wrote:

Another data point from last night. The moderates got 52% of the vote. The liberals got 35%. Bernie will continue to win until the moderates unite behind a single candidate, but then it's over for Bernie.

Moderates don't have to unite behind a single candidate. Since Democrats allocate delegate by proportional representation, Bernie cannot win the majority of delegates by winning one third of popular votes.

However, that's a pretty scary scenario. Bernie has the plurality of delegates, but well short of the majority. 2nd and 3rd place finishers form a coalition at the convention. After the first round of vote not being able to pick a nominee, superdelegates vote decisively for the 2nd place finisher in the second round. Bernie supporters get pissed off, and decide to sit out the general election or vote for a third party candidate.

So if you want to avoid the above scenario, the moderates should unite behind one candidate.

Well, I am not Trumpian, farthest thing from the truth. I just happen to not get sucked into 'sides' like so many emotionals such as yourself.

The point that you cannot comprehend because you allow your feelings about these people cloud your judgement, is that these policies have been in existence prior to Trump or Obama and have been continued during their administrations. They may tweak things here or there, a little more leniency in legal immigration under Obama vs Trump. Maybe a little less killing under Trump than Obama etc... but the fact of the matter is that these presidents on policies are more similar than different. If you could pay attention without emotions you'd realize this. But then that is exactly what they dont want, people making informed decisions not based on feelings and emotions because then it would threaten their money train.

It's obvious that those voting for Sanders don't understand what socialism is.

L L wrote:

Your math makes sense.

I thought the same thing four years when Trump kept leading with 30-40%.

I figured once 15 or so candidates dropped out that the voters would rally around someone other than Trump.

That's he'd never break 50%.

Once Jeb and Rubio dropped out and it was only Trump, Cruz and Kasich, that's when Trump went over 50%.

I thought the voters would move to Kasich but they moved to Trump.

I still don't understand why that happened. Trump is not a Republican.

I guess being anti Hispanic and Muslim immigrant was more important than being fiscally responsible.

What I am saying is that I don't know who's going to be the nominee.

I have mentioned this before, but I am not sure anyone has ever responded.

Most of my friends are progressive. I am moderate, but can really go both ways depending on the issue. I am not a party person at all. I am an issues person, as I don't see any reason why my financial stance should dictate my stance on abortion or gay marriage. But I digress...

I got off of Social Media platforms (other than LRC) afer the 2016 election just because it was so terrible, but one thing I did notice during the primary was a lot of my progressive friends voting in the Republican primary for Trump. Like, as a joke or because they thought it would guarantee a Democratic victory. Posting pictures of them checking his box or what-have-you. At the time it was funny and they were getting lots of likes and comments. I never really went back to see if these people addressed this behavior after he was elected. My guess is that they deleted the photos and posts as the results of the General election trickled in.

I don't know how widespread this was. It couldn't have been too widespread, but it also couldn't have just been my friends. I am a Gen Xer with friends across the country, and this was definitely happening in more than one state.

Has anyone ever written about this? Could it have potentially helped Trump take the primary?

NotPC wrote:

What does affect me is the economy and taxes. The Dems lose me on those points because their policies directly take money out of my pocket.

Since I am not a top 1 percenter, I don't worry about Dems raising my tax. Clinton did not raise my tax, and Obama gave me a bigger tax cut than Bush did. The only candidate who is proposing to raise my tax by more than a tiny fraction is Bernie, and I don't think he will.

It takes an act of Congress to raise my tax. So Bernie cannot do it by an executive order. And there are enough Democrats who would oppose a large scale middle class tax increase. There is no way Bernie could overcome that opposition.

you like cheaters then? wrote:

Well, I am not Trumpian, farthest thing from the truth. I just happen to not get sucked into 'sides' like so many emotionals such as yourself.

No, I don't get sucked into "sides." I am an undecided voter, and will not make my decision until right before the primary in my state. And since my state has an open primary, I might as well vote for Bill Weld, instead of one of the Ds.

However, when the incumbent president's policy directly affects my own existence, it's hard not to get emotional. No president, Democrat or Republican, has ever threatened me the way Trump is threatening right now.

If someone finally got health insurance under Obamacare, and he is in danger of losing it under Trump, he wouldn't think the difference between the two is insignificant. And you call him emotional and being "sucked into sides"?

I have a good insurance through my employer, and I don't even use most of their coverage because I am super healthy. That does not mean I am indifferent to people who lose their health insurance because of Trump.

you like cheaters then? wrote:

Obama deported more immigrants Than any other president. Google is your friend. You may also realize there are people who are American citizens that are not white.

Is Google your friend?

From the article: "According to an analysis by the Migration Policy Institute, more than 12 million people were "deported" -- either removed or returned -- from the US during the Clinton administration. More than 10 million were removed or returned during the Bush administration. Far fewer -- more than 5 million -- were removed or returned during the Obama administration."

Yes, google.

"Though President Trump has made cracking down on immigration a centerpiece of his first term, his administration lags far behind President Barack Obama’s pace of deportations. Obama — who immigrant advocates at one point called the “deporter in chief” — removed 409,849 people in 2012 alone. Trump, who has vowed to deport “millions” of immigrants, has yet to surpass 260,000 deportations in a single year.

And while Obama deported 1.18 million people during his first three years in office, Trump has deported fewer than 800,000."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/the-trump-administrations-immigration-jails-are-packed-but-deportations-are-lower-than-in-obama-era/2019/11/17/27ad0e44-f057-11e9-89eb-ec56cd414732_story.html

If you haven't figured it out by now what Trump says and what Trump does are 2 different things. You aren't in any more threat than any other time as an immigrant, just look at the numbers.

Trump says these things and threatens because it makes him popular among his base. You should be upset with the system, not Trump. And the system existed before Trump and will exist after Trump unless people can ever pull their head out of their asses and vote in someone who will actually create change not just run on it as a campaign slogan.

you like cheaters then? wrote:

If you haven't figured it out by now what Trump says and what Trump does are 2 different things. You aren't in any more threat than any other time as an immigrant, just look at the numbers.

You are 100% wrong. I don't care what Trump says. I have problems with what he DOES.

Just look at the numbers?

There are about 800,000 people protected by DACA (which Obama started). Trump's attempt to throw them out was only stopped by lawsuits.

There are about 320,000 people under Temporary Protected Statu. Trump has been stopped from throwing them out of the country only by lawsuits.

How many refugees were accepted under Obama?

Rejection rate for H1-B quadrupled under Trump.

From 1990 to 2017, average of 11 people per year lost their citizenship. Trump administration has filed 1600 cases for prosecution in two years, and is investigating another 700,000 cases.

And here is yet another number. Trump administration is trying to cut legal immigration by half.

Those programs had all existed before Trump?

Who started the travel ban? Was it Bush, Obama or Trump?

Who started the "public charge" disqualification for a green card? Bush, Obama or Trump?

Who eliminated the work permits for the spouses of H1-B holders? Bush, Obama or Trump?

And who is trying to end medical deferment program? Bush, Obama or Trump?

These have nothing to do with what Trump SAYS. In many cases, they don't even officially announce their change until they are exposed by the media. What he DOES is damaging. What he DOES is threatening. What he DOES is disgusting and repulsive.

This is not continuation of previous administration's policies, either Democratic or Republican.

Just listen to what this Republican president said more than three decades ago.

Keep the Trump talk in the Trump thread. This is about the Dem candidates.

Not Born in the USA wrote:

Rejection rate for H1-B quadrupled under Trump.

https://www.vox.com/2019/2/28/18241522/trump-h1b-tech-work-jobs-overseas

This is a good thing. Or maybe you think its good to have IT workers coming over working for peanuts compared to what US citizens would be paid for the same job.

L L wrote:

I think Buttigieg has the best slogan:

Medicare for all who want it

It's concise, it conveys a message and it speaks to everyone.

The Buttigieg campaign brought Donuts for all who want them to a rally but only brought 24 donuts. Thus they ran out before most of the crowd could get one. Hopefully this message will speak to everyone.

L L wrote:

I thought the same thing four years when Trump kept leading with 30-40%.

I figured once 15 or so candidates dropped out that the voters would rally around someone other than Trump.

That's he'd never break 50%.

Once Jeb and Rubio dropped out and it was only Trump, Cruz and Kasich, that's when Trump went over 50%.

I thought the voters would move to Kasich but they moved to Trump.

I still don't understand why that happened.

This still gives me nightmares. I was so sure that all the endorsements and money would flow to Kasich once he was the last normal candidate standing and that he would run away with it. It was utterly perplexing to me when that didn't happen. That's what has me worried about Leftist Trump, i.e. Bernie.