Jakob v. Max over 800m...who ya got?

YMMV wrote:

He is not an 800 runner, but he is a 3:31 1500 runner with a tendency to win things. My proposal was for "right now", not at some speculative future date. Do try to keep up.

I think they are both currently in 1:44 shape.

Burgin might be able to run 1:44 on the Monaco track, but Ingebrigtsen would have no chance. We’ve seen how much faster Lewandowski is than him this year, and he didn’t break 1:45 in a DL race.

Slowgebrigtsen wrote:

YMMV wrote:

He is not an 800 runner, but he is a 3:31 1500 runner with a tendency to win things. My proposal was for "right now", not at some speculative future date. Do try to keep up.

I think they are both currently in 1:44 shape.

Burgin might be able to run 1:44 on the Monaco track, but Ingebrigtsen would have no chance. We’ve seen how much faster Lewandowski is than him this year, and he didn’t break 1:45 in a DL race.

Not sure what you mean..Lewandowski has run 1:43/44 every year for the last decade in the DL.

you forgot one thing wrote:

Semiler wrote:

Ngeno KIPNGETICH

I said juniors. Not low to mid 20s, which is Murphy's age. He's slower than even Murphy.

Ah yes, the magic black people that are never 18 or 19 years old...

Slowgebrigtsen wrote:

Burgin might be able to run 1:44 on the Monaco track, but Ingebrigtsen would have no chance..

I agree, but the Norwegians run a lot slight uphill at lactate threshold, give Jakob 6 weeks of Seb Coe intervals (slightly downhill) and I would not be so sure, maybe still Burgin but pretty close.

YMMV wrote:

Slowgebrigtsen wrote:

Burgin might be able to run 1:44 on the Monaco track, but Ingebrigtsen would have no chance. We’ve seen how much faster Lewandowski is than him this year, and he didn’t break 1:45 in a DL race.

Not sure what you mean..Lewandowski has run 1:43/44 every year for the last decade in the DL.

I’m not sure what YOU mean, unless you incorrectly interpreted “this year, and he didn’t break 1:45 in a DL race” as ‘has never broken 1:45 in a DL’.

You stated, and reiterated, that what concerns you is their shape “right now”. That means the relevant stats are season bests and other indicators of current form.

Lewandowski failed to break 1:45 in a DL race (where the WL was set, no less), and has failed to break 1:46 in every other 800 this year. He has also easily beaten Ingebrigtsen with his kick in several 1500/mile races, indicating his superior speed. If Lewandowski, an experienced 800 runner, can’t manage a 1:44 in a paced DL race with the likes of Brazier, Amos, etc. to chase, what makes you think Ingebrigtsen, who is objectively slower and also a total novice at the event, could run 1:44?

All we know is Ingebrigtsen’s speed is worse than Lewandowski’s and better than Tefera’s. That means he’s a 1:46-1:47 guy, if he has a great race. Very similar to other world class 1500/5k runners.

Ah yes wrote:

you forgot one thing wrote:

I said juniors. Not low to mid 20s, which is Murphy's age. He's slower than even Murphy.

Ah yes, the people that are never their stated age...

Direct comparison by age are difficult for the two because Max's birthday is at the start of the season (May 1st) and Jakob's is at the end (19th September). But bearing that in mind, and that Max and his coach are taking a longer term view of the 1500, it seems their respective 1500 bests at around 14/15 aren't so far apart. Jakob ran a 3:48 at 14 and 10 months, and a 3:42 at 15 and 9 months. Max ran a 3:47 on his 16th birthday and hasn't ran the event since I don't think.

I see Max dominating the 800m for the next decade, and Jakob doing the same over 5000. Both will contest the 1500m, perhaps as early as Tokyo next year, with eventually Ethan Hussey challenging both over all three distances. :D

Interestingly, Ethan Hussey now has similar times to Jakob at the same age from 800 to 5000, yet nobody is talking about him.

The OP's question incorrectly assumes they are near equivalent over a distance at which one of them is a specialist. At a more elevated level, it's like asking whether Cruz would best El G over 800. Burgin is an 800 runner, and clearly one of the best in the world in his age group. Jakob, at a similar age, is not in any shape or form an 800 specialist, and never will be. The race is easily Burgin's.

Jakob's best event is the 5000, I doubt he will be messing around with the 1500 for too many more years.

I’ll take Kipngetich.

Using a third party to divine performance in a common event, much less one that is not usually shared, is tricky at best. When Lewandowski outkicks not only Jakob, but an entire field, I see that as a shift in emphasis on his part to greater endurance (he has been training 100+ miles/week this year). This change in emphasis, combined with the late WC peak, has affected a lot of athletes, in different ways.

Maybe Jakob is having a down year, maybe he doesn't have the speed, but it still doesn't diminish my curiosity concerning the two greatest young talents we have seen on the European scene n several generations. I think we are at a crossover point in their history where, if not over 800, then perhaps at 1000m would be a dramatic event.

Filip and Jakob have not gone all in yet this season as the rest of the elite milers. They are reported to train heavily straight through Stanford as well. Measurements during training are reported to show excellent progress. They intend to show strength in Monaco 1500m and London 5K. Doha is the highlight of the season.

Pretty sure Jakob ran an 800m last summer (when we know he was in exceptional form) and it was underwhelming. I'd need to look it up, but from memory it was a domestic race and he was second in around 1.48

scrags wrote:

Pretty sure Jakob ran an 800m last summer (when we know he was in exceptional form) and it was underwhelming. I'd need to look it up, but from memory it was a domestic race and he was second in around 1.48

Didn't happen. Ran a tactical 800m in Zürich summer 2017.

Jakob was likely a bit tired during both losses to Lewandowski. Didn't he win the 5000m the day before the 1500 final, and he had the heats to contend with too? And then a couple of weeks before Oslo had had been in bed with a bad cold for several days, and although he ran very well in Stockholm after that, perhaps the intense effort to get back to speed caught up with him a little in the Mile.

Coevett wrote:

Jakob was likely a bit tired during both losses to Lewandowski. Didn't he win the 5000m the day before the 1500 final, and he had the heats to contend with too? And then a couple of weeks before Oslo had had been in bed with a bad cold for several days, and although he ran very well in Stockholm after that, perhaps the intense effort to get back to speed caught up with him a little in the Mile.

You talk about the white runners as if they would not even take cold medicine they are so CLEAN and then you make excuses for them. You are a white supremacist.

Lesffy wrote:

You talk about the white runners as if they would not even take cold medicine they are so CLEAN and then you make excuses for them. You are a white supremacist.

Yes, I'm sorry Lefty. Jakob lost to the black runner Lewandowski fair and square. Marcin has done so much to promote diversity in his adopted country of Poland, and is probably the first black sportsman from Poland to become a national celebrity. Although he doesn't forget his Kenyan roots (and the genetic reason for his success), he is always proud to carry both the Polish and Kenyan flags when putting white upstarts such as Jakob in their place.

Coevett wrote:

I see Max dominating the 800m for the next decade, and Jakob doing the same over 5000. Both will contest the 1500m, perhaps as early as Tokyo next year, with eventually Ethan Hussey challenging both over all three distances. :D

Just like you saw Ingebrigtsen winning his first of many Bislett Dream Miles before he actually finished a distant 6th. I'm sure these predictions will have similar accuracy.

you americans got race on your b rain, like water on the brain.

shut up. it's just pigment.

max got his A game for 145.

jacob got his B game now for like a 334 1500.

which is pretty amazing to say for young lads.

people here don't know how to translated times generally. like from 800m to 1500m.

for example, if a guy can close a 1500 in 146 800m, his 800 m best time is surely 144 or probably a lot better.

likewise if a guy can run 331 and close with like a 144 800m guy, he's got to have a 146 in him or better.

so B game jacob in the wrong race will go 148, and in the right race 146-7 that is right now.

A game jacob is more like 145 high and it would be weird if 144 wasn't in the cards if he focuses on speed.

as far as max goes, in the perfect race, drafting he'd 144 high.

and they way he's doing things, it appears that he's not just peaking for a one off.

they have him doing cross country,

if max does the speed work, no doubt hes in there for the 142, like a peter elliot.

that is the score on that.