Fair or Foul? Canadians rip US women's soccer team for "disgraceful" celebrations in 13-0 rout.

Disgraceful.

And I’d be even more disgusted if it was the men’s team. Does that make me sexist?

The score does look bad. I cringed when I saw it not because I thought they were running up the score, but because it is not good for the growth of the sport (although the coverage it has gotten might belie that).

It was the first game of pool play and the first tiebreaker is goal differential so it sort of makes sense to load up when you can. The USWNT is very good, but it is soccer and strange things happen. (USWNT was knocked out in Rio in 2016 remember: the infamous game that led to the Hope Solo losing to cowards line).

Softball was dropped from the Olympics in part because the US dominated the competition by huge scores. Now soccer is more universal than softball, but women's soccer is still in its infancy in most of the world---still a lot of countries that do not allow women to play any sports and more where the opportunities are really limited.

The rules of soccer also work against it. Substitutions are limited so starters really have to remain in the game for a long time. One of the knocks was not putting in the subs, but only a few subs could have been used. (Maybe a rule allowing more subs if the goal differential is some number would be a good addition--there are issues with that).

Some folks said the USWNT should have just kicked the ball back forth for the second half, but that might be even more disrespectful. Think of running a race where someone was so far ahead of 2nd place that the leader started running backwards or stopped to take photos with fans.

There is no answer that would satisfy everyone. Also, this is a pro level which is very different from youth sports (where most places have a "mercy" rule).

I thought the silliest thing was I read the ref added in 3 minutes of extra time at the end. Why? WTF do that?

Achilles Tear wrote:

Canadians cheered Durant’s injury last night, so they do not have the moral high ground here.

A few did. Canada is a big country.

They also dropped a bunch of f-bombs at Steph Curry's mom while she and Dell (who is a Raptor's legend) were trying to get into their hotel. And then another group sucker punched and pushed warriors fans (a couple) to the ground in a crosswalk of all places while leaving the game in Toronto and posted it online.

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if this really were the Canadian's sports media's way to divert attention from the s-show that has been heaped on the Raptors fans for their recent actions.

who, exactly, are they "disgracing" by celebrating? certainly doesn't seem to be the Thailand team, according to this quote from Thailand coach Nuengruethai Sathongwien in the nytimes article on the match:

"""After the game, Sathongwien seemed unperturbed by the United States’ gaudy scoring display, saying her team had simply not been good enough to keep the match close. But she had a message for the Americans, like Lloyd, who had taken the time to console and encourage her players, many of whom were in tears, after the final whistle. “They saw our players were disappointed and let down, so they wanted to encourage us to keep fighting,” Sathongwien said. “So thank you very much for that.”"""

of course for the fans, to grow the sport of women's soccer, celebration is a good thing to see. from a mental / performance perspective, it may be better to "conserve" celebration energy for the more competitive matches, kinda like how track athletes wouldn't usually celebrate after winning a prelim heat or a lowkey season opener. so i can see us coming back to moments like this if they underperform, but that argument becomes totally moot if they win here on out.

also, i think the Germany men's comparison is flawed. you assume that the Germany men were purposefully "witholding" celebration out of respect, but what if they actually didn't need to "withold" anything because they had no urge to celebrate at that moment? unlike the women's team, they weren't breaking any records, just going through a routine blowout. plus, just because people think celebrating is good doesn't mean they think not celebrating is bad -- they could think both are OK.

put it this way: if Donavan Brazier hypothetically opened his season in 1:42.9, the fastest time ever run in May, would it be "OK" for him to celebrate? of course!!!! yes this match was not expected to be close, but the US women's team was not expected to win by nearly as much as they did. in both cases, the athletes set a relatively "meaningless" record early season, but it's still a good sign, and there's nothing wrong with celebrating after that.

now, could it be a bad sign w.r.t. peaking when it counts? maybe, but that's all speculation until we can see for ourselves so it's kind of a fruitless argument. many athletes have opened super strong and just carried it through the season.

Reminds me of when Michael Owen took shots against a teenage goalkeeper

https://youtu.be/WqOxNspUPyE

Neville Southall correctly called him out on his ridiculous OTT celebrations.

"Well done, he's 13"

Ruffian was a lady with class, Rapinhoe not so much -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K2mStD9Hu8

Awwww. Did someone's widdle feelings get hewrt? They should have run the score to 20 and done Superman slides after each goal. It's the freaking World Cup. Hold nothing back. I'm sick and tired of all this political correctness. If you can't handle it...stay home and play dominos or tiddlywinks. USA!!!!!

1) If you can be beaten 13-0 you don’t belong in the the a World Cup. Resign the game and walk off, that’s the “honorable “ play.

2) Even though Let’s Run believes sports are serious human endeavors, in reality they are simply entertainment. Debate about the propriety of goal celebrations is just part of the fun.

BFD wrote:

1) If you can be beaten 13-0 you don’t belong in the the a World Cup. Resign the game and walk off, that’s the “honorable “ play.

2) Even though Let’s Run believes sports are serious human endeavors, in reality they are simply entertainment. Debate about the propriety of goal celebrations is just part of the fun.

In the NBA you’d get a technical foul called for taunting.

In the NFL you’d get a penalty.

In MLB you’d get hit by a pitch.

In the NHL you get hit into the boards.

BFD wrote:

1) If you can be beaten 13-0 you don’t belong in the the a World Cup. Resign the game and walk off, that’s the “honorable “ play.

2) Even though Let’s Run believes sports are serious human endeavors, in reality they are simply entertainment. Debate about the propriety of goal celebrations is just part of the fun.

Deutschland trounced Brasil by a huge margin in the WC. So they don't belong? Every team in the WC earned their spot.

It their national pastime to trash Americans. Ironically, Americans are nicer people on average.

It's women's soccer. There are what, like 5 good teams? I assume it's like women's basketball where the NCAA tourney should be just the 1 seeds....as it always seems it basically ends up that way anyway. The talent is much more concentrated because, well, not near as many people care about women's sports. So...cut the crap about it's the World Cup and it's the top teams in the World. Thailand was massively overmatched and everyone knew it.

It was terrible sportsmanship to celebrate, outside of someone who scored their first WC goal or something. The lady who scored 5 goals should be ashamed of herself.

For the people saying "I would rather compete against someone trying hard than someone taking it easy." Well, imagine this in running. You're being lapped for the 3rd time in the 3000. And each time the lead runner goes by, they strut and yelp out "yes, another one!" You're being humiliated by being lapped again and they're rubbing your face in it.

It was terrible sportsmanship.

“Over the years, several USWNT players have described how bush-league they thought it was when the Norwegians did their “train celebration” after beating the U.S. in the ‘95 semis, or when the Brazilians danced and sang in front of the Americans at their shared hotel after beating them in the ‘07 semis. If you’re O.K. with the U.S.’s goal celebrations on Tuesday, you have to be O.K. with those things too.”

https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/06/11/usa-thailand-rout-celebrations-goals-jill-ellis-alex-morgan

joedirt wrote:

Here is a comparable video:

Canada beating the Cubans in CONCACAF 2018 12-0.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsa3ycoy8Wc

Everybody seemed to celebrate their goal (subs probably celebrated more than the starters). I don't think it matters how much someone celebrates or in what manner as long as they aren't saying you suck to the other guy.

Comparing them to German men isn't really fair. If I had to compare German men versus US women on an emotional spectrum, it wouldn't even be close. I would expect that US women would be more emotional than German men. It reminds me of Robin Williams talking about German comedy:

I

Are you joking? The Canadian women barely celebrated. They did what I'd expect someone up 10 goals to do - "a smile and a handshake." Rapinoe's celebration of the 9th goal was a disgrace:

As someone said, it's like a 410 miler beating a 4:45 miler in 4:20 and then acting like they broke 4:00. Awful.

When high school boys beat women's national soccer teams--sometimes quite badly--I wonder if they celebrated every goal obnoxiously. And if they did, would the women have been okay with it? As with most things, I like consistency. So if they can take obnoxious celebrations without any complaints, then they should be able to dish it out. And this goes for both men and women.

LetsRun.com wrote:

Rapinoe's celebration of the 9th goal was a disgrace:

https://twitter.com/FOXSoccer/status/1138547110079369216

This pretty much sums it up for me. Aren’t the referees allowed to issue yellow cards for this?

What makes it worse is all the people making excuses for the players. The US women’s soccer federation should woman up and issue an apology, if not reprimand.

Travesty ... disgusting wrote:

Disgraceful.

And I’d be even more disgusted if it was the men’s team. Does that make me sexist?

Jordan Peterson would say it all makes sense.

Men are more aggressive and if the winning team exhibited outlandish antics after every goal they would get intentionally roughed up by the other team. The know that and so they would tone down the celebrations. They’d play just as hard still and continue to run up the score but that would be okay for both the fans and the other team, given the importance of goal differential.

Women are less aggressive. Exhibit A: the passiveness of the Thai coaches and players after the game refusing to condemn the boorish behavior of the US women. Women are generally less attuned to aggressive behavior and don’t know when to tone down the emotive displays. They did thrive in the post game consolation displays, which is fine but so far no real evidence of contrition.

This is America. This is what we do. DOMINATE at all costs and keep dominating.