Congrats to Clayton "Young" - Is Mr Young at 25 the oldest NCAA champ in decades?

Money probably isn’t what qualifies him on this forum. I’d say it’s the years of running at an elite level. Probably aren’t too many “runners” on this forum that have more experience (and winning experience at that) than Josh McAdams.

So Henry Rono was 27 1/2 (born 2/52) when he won the '79 NCAA D1 XC at Lehigh. How is that fair to any 21-22 year old running in that same race?

ageist said: this byu age cheating thing has gotten out of hand.

Brigham Young Un. have such an advantage and are cheating and gaming the system so effectively the last time they won the NCAA 10,000m the athlete concerned was Clayton Young's coach, Ed Eyestone. Eyestone won the NCAA 10,000m Championship twice.

in 1984 at Eugene, Or: 1. Ed Eyestone (Brigham Young Un.) 28:05.30; 2. Ibrahim Juma-Kivina (Un. of New Mexico) 28:06.00; 3. Joseph Kipsang (Iowa State Un.) 28:15.35; 4. Tom Ansberry (Un. of Arizona) 28:15.61; 5. John Easker (Un. of Wisconsin) 28:32.75; 6. Peter Koech (Washington State Un.) 28:39.65; 7. Keith Brantly (Florida State Un.) 28:39.82; 8. Gidamis Shahanga (Un. of Texas El Paso) 28:54.16

the following year at, coincidentally, Austin, TX, he defended his title by outkicking Peter Koech (Washington State Un.) and Yobes Ondieki (Iowa State Un.). 1. Ed Eyestone (Brigham Young Un.) 28:46.87; 2. Peter Koech (Washington State Un.) 28:53.29; 3. Yobes Ondieki (Iowa State Un.) 29:07.44; 4. James Sapienza (Dartmouth College) 29:09.22; 5. Brian Dunne (East Tennessee State Un.) 29:22.87; 6. Dave Morrison (Un. of Minnesota) 29:26.50; 7. Pat Gilloly (Boston Un.) 29:29.23; 8. Mark Stickley (Virginia Tech Un.) 29:36.10

Jason Witt was 3rd in 2015 and Rory Linkletter was 2nd in 2017, and they have two 5th places from Jared Ward (2012) and Craig Lawson (1994), but that is it for Brigham young's points scoring in the 10,000m. if cheating means you win a title every 34 years then it is probably more profitable to not cheat, but then the facts never convinced any LRC'er of anything.

it is also worth pointing out that there have only been three winning times this century slower than Young's: Brad Hauser (Stanford Un.) 30:38.57, 2000; Lawi Lalang (Un. of Arizona) 29:29.65, 2013; Alistair Cragg (Un. of Arkansas) 29:22.43, 2004; which would suggest that if you want to win you could probably just try running faster.

All of the studies have found that we peak in our early 20s. 25 is past peak a nd most competitors are 22 whuch is spot on their physical peak. Who are the fastest guys in the world right now? Berega, Kejelcha? Théy are about the age of a typical college junior. They will be washed up at 25 and replaced with the next 20 year old just like most of the 22 year olds in the NCAA. I dint care if the winner is 25 or 20 or 30. They play by the rules. Next you losers will be crying that BYU wins too much because the guys dont drink or they go to bed early or they train more than other teams. Those things all contribute and maybe age helps them because of mental maturity. You can't single out one factor. Good coaches are analyzing it right now and if it is age, they will be convincing guys to delay starting college for a year.

Idiot. My point was that people who graduate from HS after 18 aren't all idiots. My parents moved us 6 times by the time I was 6 years old, and that messed up my school schedule. And you're right. Not all people who make lots of money are smart. Drug dealers can make lots of money. My point was that I went on to higher education.

With that said, many BYU and Mormon members give up 2 years where they could be making two more years of income or enjoying two more years of running in their prime whether that be at the NCAA, professional, or non-competitive level. It's easy to look at what we gain, but negate what we lose from a secular standpoint.

I graduated college at 21 so did everyone else I know. He served a 2 year mission. What did he do with the other 2 years beside cheat?

Dr Joshua McAdams, OD wrote:

I graduated high school at 19. I'm an optometrist earning in the top 5% of American income. I'm also the 2006 D1 NCAA 3K Steeplechase champ and a 2008 Olympian. I was 26 when I won it. I went from 148 lbs my college freshman year to 194 lbs as a missionary in Thailand. I ran maybe 5 times in 2 years. Maybe it helped. Maybe if I hadn't gone, I could have made another Olympic team or 2?

Go read Malcolm Gladwell's book,"Outliers," and find your idiots.

Weird flex bro.

Dril wrote:

I graduated college at 21 so did everyone else I know. He served a 2 year mission. What did he do with the other 2 years beside cheat?

Pretty incredible that EVERYONE you know graduated at 21 when 22 is more common.

Dr Joshua McAdams, OD wrote:

I graduated high school at 19. I'm an optometrist earning in the top 5% of American income. I'm also the 2006 D1 NCAA 3K Steeplechase champ and a 2008 Olympian. I was 26 when I won it. I went from 148 lbs my college freshman year to 194 lbs as a missionary in Thailand. I ran maybe 5 times in 2 years. Maybe it helped. Maybe if I hadn't gone, I could have made another Olympic team or 2?

Go read Malcolm Gladwell's book,"Outliers," and find your idiots.

Yeah okay, but in the softest event in the NCAA. We’re talking about the 10k here

Wow okay there are some seriously salty people here who seem to be missing the mark and arguing a variety of different points. Josh's response was to someone who said that older graduates were dumb (see how far off topic this post has gone).

As for the general tone of this thread, I think people need to learn the difference between fact and opinion. No one seems to care about BYU until they hit a stretch of success (ebs and flows are normal for all teams, even teams with older athletes) and then once they find some more success it becomes the opinion of many that BYU has a major advantage due to missions, or that they're "age cheating."

I'm just curious about the facts.

1. FACT: BYU Athletes who go on missions are older. No, BYU does not hide this fact (someone earlier called out BYU's honesty for a reason I don't understand).

2. FACT: those who choose to go on a mission do it for personal reasons, and for nothing to do with athletic competition.

3. FACT: BYU athletes who serve 2 year missions come back unprepared to jump back into athletic competition. This is a spectrum and varies by individual and mission experience. But 30 minutes of daily exercise on a mission where you must be within sight and sound of another assigned missionary does not even equate to 30 minutes of regular running. I ran 10 miles in my 2 year mission and went from running a 4:10 mile and 8:19 3k to running an all-out 5:45 mile the week I came home from my mission. Took me a year to hit my PR's again. Some never get back into competition shape and move on to other things in their lives. Some come back ready to compete in 3-4 months

4. OPINION: Being 2 years older is why BYU athletes have success. There is just no evidence to support this. Some of BYU's best runners in recent years did not serve missions, or were excelling their freshman year already before ever going on a mission. This is an insult to BYU. Coach Eyestone, and yourself if you're in a situation to ever compete against them. This mindset tells you they already have an advantage due to age, and no matter how hard you work you can't beat them.

I know, no one is likely to change anyone's mind on this thread. But I think we should discuss the facts, or show evidence to support your opinion if others disagree. I always come back to the same thought though. Is a 25 year old who took 2 YEARS OFF really in a better situation than a 23 year old who trained straight through that time, worked their tail off, and is a savvy competitor? Maybe, maybe not. But I don't see the reason to get your panties in a bunch over it and I don't see the most successful athletes in the sport complaining about it either.

stop trying so hard

I think Grant Fisher explained pretty well the problem that I have with all this. The older dudes (NOT JUST FROM BYU) aren't in school anymore and aren't taking classes. I know redshirt years a big part of the NCAA, but it doesn't feel right when a 25 year old person who isn't taking college classes is racing against 18, 19, 20, 21, or 22 year olds who are actually at their institution pursuing a degree.

I don't know the details about Clayton Young. Maybe he's still in school, maybe he isn't.

Dril wrote:

stop trying so hard

The rallying cry of the unsuccessful!

Wait aren't you they guy who said a few posts back he doesn't know anyone 22 or older graduating from college? Haha next

reiutowirewi wrote:

I think Grant Fisher explained pretty well the problem that I have with all this. The older dudes (NOT JUST FROM BYU) aren't in school anymore and aren't taking classes. I know redshirt years a big part of the NCAA, but it doesn't feel right when a 25 year old person who isn't taking college classes is racing against 18, 19, 20, 21, or 22 year olds who are actually at their institution pursuing a degree.

I don't know the details about Clayton Young. Maybe he's still in school, maybe he isn't.

Except these BYU guys are taking classes. 2 years off of running also meant 2 years off of school. How do you think they get their degree?

reiutowirewi wrote:

I don't know the details about Clayton Young. Maybe he's still in school, maybe he isn't.

Clayton said in his post race interview that he is half way through his Master's degree in Mechanical Engineering. So yes, he's still in school.

I'm pretty sure that to be NCAA eligible you must be enrolled in school and on track to graduate, so I think you misunderstood whatever Fisher was trying to say.

reiutowirewi wrote:

I think Grant Fisher explained pretty well the problem that I have with all this. The older dudes (NOT JUST FROM BYU) aren't in school anymore and aren't taking classes. I know redshirt years a big part of the NCAA, but it doesn't feel right when a 25 year old person who isn't taking college classes is racing against 18, 19, 20, 21, or 22 year olds who are actually at their institution pursuing a degree.

I don't know the details about Clayton Young. Maybe he's still in school, maybe he isn't.

Found the guy who didn’t run in college.

Clayton Young is too old to be competing in college. He knows it, you know it, we all know it.

Response to troll, religious and age discriminators wrote:

Fraud Center of the USA wrote:

BYU could self regulate and not allow guys seven years out of high school to compete. They don't and they won't. Cheating and fraud is ingrained in their culture. I'd be very surprised if they aren't all on a pharmaceutical boost also.

Wow, age discrimination and religious discrimination in one sentence...must have taken a long time for you to come up with that one. What a troll. go suck you thumb cry in the corner.

Age discrimination? Why not let 25 year old guys run in high school? Or grade school?

Also, I don't see anything in that post about religion. Fraud Center was writing about culture, and it is well established that Utah is the number one place for ponzi schemes, get rich quick scams and fraud in the US. Fraud and cheating is very ingrained in the Utah culture.