Gawd I miss this show:
Gawd I miss this show:
I loved dodgeball. There was nothing better than the unconditional permission to inflict serious hurt on your fellow classmates during gym class. I was an agile dodgeballer myself. I could escape the ball much like Keanu Reeves dodged bullets in the Matrix. But few could escape my ball throwing wrath, especially after a bad day in the cafeteria.
The most violent thing I remember in school was when the PE teachers were lazy they would just throw a soccer ball onto the field. All the athletic kids would gather around it and kick each others shins to bloody ribbons. It was fair, too; the unathletic kids were free to wander around the field and do whatever else they felt like.
Just don’t make it mandatory. Problem solved.
One of the funniest things I ever saw was a dodge ball tournament at a large church. Parents, kids, pastors... everyone was having a blast. Brett Farve shows up on a team with about 4-5 pastors. Their opponents are a bunch of 10-12 year old girls and it is obvious this is going to be a slaughter-fest. He beans a couple of them with a flip of the wrist and then a little girl lines up and whips one at Brent and it bounces off his hands and he is put out of the game. Was the highlight of the night and I'm sure a great learning experience that didn't result in any permanently maimed personalities.
The descriptive buzzword is "miseducative" wrote:
This week, three education theorists will present the premise that dodgeball is “miseducative” and teaches athletic privilege to the Canadian Society for the Study of Education at the Congress of the Humanities and Social Sciences in Vancouver, Canada.
[quote]It is not saved because some kids like it, according to an abstract for the presentation, led by Joy Butler, professor of curriculum and pedagogy at the University of British Columbia.
“As we consider the potential of physical education to empower students by engaging them in critical and democratic practices, we conclude that the hidden curriculum offered by dodgeball is antithetical to this project, even when it reflects the choices of the strongest and most agile students,” it reads.
As Butler’s abstract describes it, those “faces” are “marginalization, powerlessness, and helplessness of those perceived as weaker individuals through the exercise of violence and dominance by those who are considered more powerful.” Young’s list of these fundamental types of oppression also includes exploitation and cultural domination.
The audience for this argument is primarily teachers, including gym teachers, who are identified as part of the problem, for not acting on values they otherwise understand and claim to hold.
“Despite the fact that many physical educators understand their vital role in helping students develop robust, equal, productive relationships and critical awareness, their practices on the ground do not always reflect this agenda,” the presenters write. “We suggest that this tension becomes sharply visible in the common practice of allowing students to play dodgeball.”
Brean's National Post article references the comedy movie Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story with Vince Vaughn and Ben Stiller to highlight how dodgeball is a danger to the development of children’s character:
“Dodgeball is a sport of violence, exclusion, and degradation.” – Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story
For teachers trying to foster the virtues of caring and inclusion, on this view, dodgeball is counterproductive. Sport can teach ethical behaviour and give students the chance to practise it and, in this sense, it is important training for citizens in a democracy.
This goal is impeded when cruelty, oppression and violence are built into the rules. Games become more like cruel initiation ceremonies into a brutal world in which might makes right. As O’Houlihan puts it, before he starts throwing wrenches at his players as a form of training: “If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.”
Again quoting this 2004 comedy film to exemplify athletic privilege:
“Dodgeball is a sport of violence, exclusion and degradation. So, when you’re picking players in gym class, remember to pick the bigger, stronger kids for your team. That way, you can all gang up on the weaker ones like Winston here.” Winston, a stereotypical nerd, gets a laugh here when he gets hit in the head and his glasses fall off. For many students, this is the miserable experience of schoolyard dodgeball.
I loved dodgeball on playground and pool.
They couldn't get me.
It taught me calm resilience.
oregon oldtimer wrote:
One of the funniest things I ever saw was a dodge ball tournament at a large church. Parents, kids, pastors... everyone was having a blast. Brett Farve shows up on a team with about 4-5 pastors. Their opponents are a bunch of 10-12 year old girls and it is obvious this is going to be a slaughter-fest. He beans a couple of them with a flip of the wrist and then a little girl lines up and whips one at Brent and it bounces off his hands and he is put out of the game. Was the highlight of the night and I'm sure a great learning experience that didn't result in any permanently maimed personalities.
Because it could be named "scapegoat."
Read René Girard.
RossiCheated wrote:
A response to several points:
That dodgeball teaches agility. No, it measures agility. And those who lack it sit on a bench and develop nothing for long periods of time. A fun obstacle course in which kids improve their best times (and can even compete with others) would be a much better choice.
That kids won’t be ready for a draft. We have an all-volunteer military and I don’t see us ever going back.
That kids are going soft. Today’s kids are under more pressure than most adults can imagine, in part because adults are a cause. There are soaring mental health issues among kids. It isn’t because they are soft. Social media, academic pressure, school shootings, zero-tolerance policies, etc., create a very different childhood today and kids have to be tough to navigate it. The “kids are soft” stuff comes from “get off my lawn” types who really don’t know.
A common refrain is “kids need to learn “X” so we need dodgeball.” Give a good P.E. Teacher your list of X things and they’ll give you a better, safer, more constructive way to teach it that will keep kids engaged longer, off the bench, and will allow for esteem building. And yes, those activities can still be competitive and determine winners.
kid here. you're an idiot
wtf ??! wrote:
Why are we helping children think that they're strong in every possible area? Part of growing up is learning about where you're weak, so that you can either fix it or avoid certain situations. That's much better than a false sense of strength, which will only set you up to fail harder later on down the road.
Your post is a red herring. No one is saying the goal is to remove discomfort from childhood. Let's just have the discomfort be from a meaning part of life's experience, not some arbitrary game where the athletes easily pick off the weaklings by throwing a ball hard at them.
Going up to bat a ball, giving a speech or taking a hard test all cause discomfort. Striking out in baseball is different then being selected first as a target because you are weak in dodge ball.
I can think that dodgeball when not controlled properly can be a bad experience, but what makes it a horrible PE activity is that you get hit then you go sit. You want the kids up and moving constantly, not sitting on the bleachers looking at instagram.
toomanysnowflakes wrote:
Too many snowflakes on this board getting all triggered by scary words like "marginalization", and throwing temper tantrums whining about academicians, and whining about Normandy, and stuff that has nothing to do with this.
What we need is a filter level to get papers like this translated into easier English, without any scary words like "marginalization", so the letsrun snowflakes won't get so triggered, and won't go off on irrelevant rants complaining about weak generations.
It's obvious to anyone who thinks about this that there is a sane, adult conversation possible about whether dodgeball is productive in terms of improving athleticism or teaching goals.
Well arent you the superior one.
Stupid activities wrote:
A teacher friend of mine was on playground duty at a middle school while they were kicking balls around on the playground.
One of the kids kicked an out of bounds ball from behind her that hit her in the back of the head, and destroyed her retina.
She is now blind in that eye.
Oh Please wrote:
That's a stupid point. Everything one can possibly do has probably resulted in an accident somewhere. That's just the price of being alive.
Perhaps when the same thing happens to you, then you won't continue to be so smug and ignorant.
The descriptive buzzword is "miseducative" wrote:
This week, three education theorists will present the premise that dodgeball is “miseducative” and teaches athletic privilege to the Canadian Society for the Study of Education at the Congress of the Humanities and Social Sciences in Vancouver, Canada.
It is not saved because some kids like it, according to an abstract for the presentation, led by Joy Butler, professor of curriculum and pedagogy at the University of British Columbia.
“As we consider the potential of physical education to empower students by engaging them in critical and democratic practices, we conclude that the hidden curriculum offered by dodgeball is antithetical to this project, even when it reflects the choices of the strongest and most agile students,” it reads.
As Butler’s abstract describes it, those “faces” are “marginalization, powerlessness, and helplessness of those perceived as weaker individuals through the exercise of violence and dominance by those who are considered more powerful.” Young’s list of these fundamental types of oppression also includes exploitation and cultural domination.
The audience for this argument is primarily teachers, including gym teachers, who are identified as part of the problem, for not acting on values they otherwise understand and claim to hold.
“Despite the fact that many physical educators understand their vital role in helping students develop robust, equal, productive relationships and critical awareness, their practices on the ground do not always reflect this agenda,” the presenters write. “We suggest that this tension becomes sharply visible in the common practice of allowing students to play dodgeball.”
Brean's National Post article references the comedy movie Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story with Vince Vaughn and Ben Stiller to highlight how dodgeball is a danger to the development of children’s character:
“Dodgeball is a sport of violence, exclusion, and degradation.” – Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story
https://nationalpost.com/news/dodgeball-isnt-just-problematic-its-an-unethical-tool-of-oppression-researchersFor teachers trying to foster the virtues of caring and inclusion, on this view, dodgeball is counterproductive. Sport can teach ethical behaviour and give students the chance to practise it and, in this sense, it is important training for citizens in a democracy.
This goal is impeded when cruelty, oppression and violence are built into the rules. Games become more like cruel initiation ceremonies into a brutal world in which might makes right. As O’Houlihan puts it, before he starts throwing wrenches at his players as a form of training: “If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.”
Again quoting this 2004 comedy film to exemplify athletic privilege:
“Dodgeball is a sport of violence, exclusion and degradation. So, when you’re picking players in gym class, remember to pick the bigger, stronger kids for your team. That way, you can all gang up on the weaker ones like Winston here.” Winston, a stereotypical nerd, gets a laugh here when he gets hit in the head and his glasses fall off. For many students, this is the miserable experience of schoolyard dodgeball.
I’m a PhD student and I’m here to tell you all that this article is good and true,
Luv2Run wrote:
I can think that dodgeball when not controlled properly can be a bad experience, but what makes it a horrible PE activity is that you get hit then you go sit. You want the kids up and moving constantly, not sitting on the bleachers looking at instagram.
Not how we played dodgeball. Once you got "out" on the court, you went to the other side and threw from that side. No one ever sat out of the game, you just pummeled kids from the other side.
Games teach skills. Dodgeball teaches a variety of skills, many are social, rather than physical. The overall appearance of bullying is real, but in the context of the game, constrained. Elsewhere on the playground and on life bullying can carry far worse consequences. Smaller and younger kids do feel oppressed by the older stronger kids, but as they grow older and become the oppressors, they learn some compassion. Most find little pleasure in pounding the frightened, immobile and slowest kids. The quick and unafraid are more inviting targets. Sadistic impulses are immediately obvious, and noted and often curtailed by peers. In any case, in one's social milieu, it's best to be aware both that such individuals exist and who they are. Amongst the target group , one learns who amongst you fears the sting of the ball so badly that they freeze. One learns who is physically inept, and who is quick, agile and unafraid, with opportunities to attempt to emulate any you admire. This teaches social context. Similarly, as one grows older one finds the expected joy of being the oppressor is not so great, and social context amongst both peer and underclass is demonstrated.
Sting wrote:
Games teach skills. Dodgeball teaches a variety of skills, many are social, rather than physical. The overall appearance of bullying is real, but in the context of the game, constrained. Elsewhere on the playground and on life bullying can carry far worse consequences. Smaller and younger kids do feel oppressed by the older stronger kids, but as they grow older and become the oppressors, they learn some compassion. Most find little pleasure in pounding the frightened, immobile and slowest kids. The quick and unafraid are more inviting targets. Sadistic impulses are immediately obvious, and noted and often curtailed by peers. In any case, in one's social milieu, it's best to be aware both that such individuals exist and who they are. Amongst the target group , one learns who amongst you fears the sting of the ball so badly that they freeze. One learns who is physically inept, and who is quick, agile and unafraid, with opportunities to attempt to emulate any you admire. This teaches social context. Similarly, as one grows older one finds the expected joy of being the oppressor is not so great, and social context amongst both peer and underclass is demonstrated.
We learned all those same lessons when we played "Lord of the Flies"
The root of all of this is the mensheviks, the marxists, the original bolsheviks. They know this is nonsense, but they wish to destroy the West. Their grandest hope is to genocide peoples of European extraction, but they'll gladly take the destruction of the West as a takeaway if they can't do that. Wake up. It's all funny until you look at how it's connected. And when you start to mention these truths they'll call you a racist, a hater, as they practice their relentless racism, incredible ethnocentrism, self-deception, and call themselves eternal victims and a marginalized minority while being the wealthiest group of all due to their ethnic networking and ceaseless nepotism. Figure it out. Let 'em call you a hater, a nazi. All they do is accuse others of what they themselves are doing. Read Solzhenitsyn. It will all become clear.
We played a version of dodge ball called prison ball. It was like dodge ball with the added joy of having opponents behind you, in 'prison', trying to take your head off. Someone mentioned those red rubber balls that ring when they hit you - gave me flashbacks. We played with older kids, and when they were in prison, they would pretend they were on my team, ask to borrow the ball, and then take me out.
That taught me a lot about life.
Don't trust people just because they seem friendly.
Find other like-minded people to gang up on bullies.
Learn to duck, and to jump over balls, then mercilessly taunt your opponents and make them miss.
Get a running start, and aim for the head.
You can do all those things even if you are nowhere near a top athlete. Kids respect another kid who is doing the best he can with the tools he's given, even if he isn't big and strong. What we need is better PE teachers who teach lesser athletes how to make alliances and exploit weaknesses. Imagine the confidence it would give to those kids, feeling like they could walk into any situation and make friends, and/or compete with anyone in the room.
Marx was an economist, moran.
The Soviet Union created the finest, most physically dominant athletes in history. I'm sure they understood the value of childhood defeats in molding adult champions.
Murder ball
Stephen Berg, education professor at UBC Okanagan, said he grew up loving dodgeball — a game his teachers called "murder ball" — but he changed his tune when he became an educator.
"In schools we talk a lot about kindness, empathy, compassion and citizenship," said Berg, who finds those terms "go out the window" in the gym.
"It's almost contradictory to what we are trying to demonstrate in schools," he said.
Berg knows from his daughter the anxiety that dodgeball can induce.
He said his daughter is "a great human being but not that athletic" and when she leaves a gym class after a game of dodgeball she "feels ashamed that she is not contributing."
Berg acknowledged that other kids love and excel at the game and that it is a chance to release energy, but he disagrees with the notion that other kids should "suck it up or toughen up."
He said mental health is serious concern these days for youth and telling them to toughen up "just doesn't fly anymore."
Berg agreed with Butler that a variety of alternative, more inclusive activities could be substituted for dodgeball.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/dodgeball-dangerous-stop-ubc-professor-1.5161403
Is there a rule against attaching a helium balloon to yourself while running a road race?
Am I living in the twilight zone? The Boston Marathon weather was terrible!
How rare is it to run a sub 5 minute mile AND bench press 225?
Mark Coogan says that if you could only do 3 workouts as a 1500m runner you should do these
Move over Mark Coogan, Rojo and John Kellogg share their 3 favorite mile workouts
Red Bull (who sponsors Mondo) calls Mondo the pole vaulting Usain Bolt. Is that a fair comparison?