BYU is good, Their** men are.. well... more men, than the rest

That's the thing, thy have very little free time. They rarely have enough free time to get ready to run, go run, and clean up. And km top of that, they have to stay with their companion at all times. So if their companion doesn't want to run, then nobody gets to run. These kids are lucky to get 10 mpw in.

grampas wrote:

So you found a list of athletes at ALL the other schools as old as the ones at a single school, except that list is only a third as long as the number of grampas at BYU.

Wrong on multiple accounts, there are a total of 231 international athletes who made it to Nationals including relay participants and alternates declared in the technical process.

I looked at a total of 39 of those athletes from just a few teams and was able to come up with that list, 4 of them didn't have a birthdate listed so I couldn't verify. I even omitted a lot of 23 year old seniors.

I could expand that list by looking at all 231 international athletes. I could further expand that to include all international athletes who made it to regionals. It could then be expanded further by looking at all non international athletes who made it to regionals. Which would include runners such as Weini Kelati a 22 year old sophomore.

That was just the tip of the iceberg. The fact that I demonstrated that the NCAA is full of older runners at the top and you can still justify how much more wrong it is that BYU is competing with some older athletes says a lot about where your biases lie.

There still hasn't been one cogent response to why the mission can't be done after college. When the mission is over, you'll be exactly the same age as if you did it in the middle of college. You can get married a few times exactly the same as if you did your mission during college instead of after. You can get a job at exactly the same age if the mission is after college or during college. The only true explanation is that it is being used to age cheat.

shhhashank wrote:

if it's such a disadvantage... then stop it already.

You're making an assumption that it's all about running.

It's not about running. If it was about running then guys wouldn't be going on missions in the first place, it's counter intuitive to think that a young athlete with potential in the sport would choose to go on a mission in order to gain a competitive advantage. He would have to believe that getting assigned to some place not of his choosing for two years and working 60+ hours a week proselytizing and serving, having limited control over diet and exercise depending on the type of transportation used in the mission (a lot of missions in the United States use cars and so even your walking could be limited). Having a daily routine with 30 minutes of scheduled exercise in the morning, which if you want to use for running would have to be accommodated by your companion. He would have to believe that going through all that was worth it just so he could get that competitive advantage he's looking for.

Yeah i'm sure every young man that chooses to go on a mission thinks "This will be great for my running career, I can't wait to throw my fitness to the wind for two years so that I can come back and dominate the NCAA's finest!"

Missions have nothing to do with running/sports and the BYU track and field program has no authority to determine wether an athlete goes on a mission or not, it's a personal decision.

If it was only about the running then i'm sure Ed Eyestone would prefer to have his guys with 4 years of eligibility and a redshirt option right out of highschool like he had with Linkletter and Mcmillan.

Versus recruiting guys in highschool, waiting 2 years with the uncertainty which a mission brings, blowing a redshirt year in order to help the athlete get back in shape so he can start contributing to the team. To me that sounds like a tough reality rather than a nice advantage.

Want a recipe for success? Yes it includes older athletes, but more importantly less unknowns, less need for athlete development. How about recruiting and bringing in international athletes who have excelled at Worlds U23. Bring them in at 21-23 years old as threats to score points for you as freshman and three years thereafter. That's sounds like a much better strategy for a program, and one that many use today.

It's not about running, if it was about running no one would choose to go on missions.

Age cheater, There need not be a cogent response. Apparently these BYU boys can go on a mission any time they want. As has been mentioned, a thread on this subject gets started fairly frequently. Why don't all you whiney asses get each others phone number and start a club.

Why not just relegate BYU to Division III or naia where the age rules are much laxer (I have heard). Every year it seems that there is a story about some senior citizen playing football or wrestling at one of those schools.

Just looked it up: no age limit in naia and no 4 in 5 rule for Division III. Perfect solution for BYU and their missionaries.

Sent Down wrote:

Why not just relegate BYU to Division III or naia where the age rules are much laxer (I have heard). Every year it seems that there is a story about some senior citizen playing football or wrestling at one of those schools.

Just looked it up: no age limit in naia and no 4 in 5 rule for Division III. Perfect solution for BYU and their missionaries.

Great idea! Why not just relegate any and all Division I programs to Division III who have athletes older than a typical 5th year senior out of American High school.

It'll be a party!

nofacetimber wrote:

Sent Down wrote:

Why not just relegate BYU to Division III or naia where the age rules are much laxer (I have heard). Every year it seems that there is a story about some senior citizen playing football or wrestling at one of those schools.

Just looked it up: no age limit in naia and no 4 in 5 rule for Division III. Perfect solution for BYU and their missionaries.

Great idea! Why not just relegate any and all Division I programs to Division III who have athletes older than a typical 5th year senior out of American High school.

It'll be a party!

With BYU, it is systemic. They want special exemptions for the majority of their athletes. Get rid of the special exemptions and go to a division where they don't need exemptions,

Sent Down wrote:

With BYU, it is systemic. They want special exemptions for the majority of their athletes. Get rid of the special exemptions and go to a division where they don't need exemptions,

Petition the NCAA to drop the exemption due to age advantages then.

While you are at it address the systemic recruiting of 21-23 year old international elites who come in and make an impact at nationals as freshman. Or continue to ignore it, while focusing on BYU.

Getting the NCAA to drop the missionary exemption based on age would be hypocritical without addressing other cases with older athletes. Doubt that would ever happen it would be hypocrisy at it's finest.

according to this random guy, BYU students don't have to do a mission trip.

These are the percentages of athletes from each school that make up 800, 1500, 5k, 10k and steeple fields at the West Prelims.... BYU is clearly taking advantage of a rule that only helps them and hurts kids who aren't religious or belong to religions that don't offer missions. Time to end this discriminatory rule for endurance sport athletes.

Men & Women

BYU

6.8894%

Arkansas

4.3841%

Washington

4.1754%

Colorado

3.7578%

Portland

3.7578%

Stanford

3.7578%

Boise State

3.5491%

New Mexico

3.3403%

Oregon

3.1315%

Minnesota

2.9228%

No. Arizona

2.7140%

Texas

2.5052%

IA State

2.2965%

Air Force

2.0877%

OK State

2.0877%

Wisconsin

2.0877%

UCLA

1.8789%

California

1.6701%

Iowa

1.6701%

San Francisco

1.4614%

So. Utah

1.4614%

Texas A&M

1.4614%

Utah

1.4614%

CO State

1.2526%

Gonzaga

1.2526%

San Jose St

1.2526%

Tulsa

1.2526%

Bradley

1.0438%

ID State

1.0438%

IL State

1.0438%

Nebraska

1.0438%

SD State

1.0438%

USC

1.0438%

UT State

1.0438%

AZ State

0.8351%

Loyola (Ill.)

0.8351%

Missouri

0.8351%

Oklahoma

0.8351%

TX Tech

0.8351%

UT Valley

0.8351%

Wichita State

0.8351%

Arizona

0.6263%

Baylor

0.6263%

CSU Fullerton

0.6263%

Kansas

0.6263%

Santa Clara

0.6263%

UT-Arlington

0.6263%

UTEP

0.6263%

WA State

0.6263%

Wyoming

0.6263%

Ark-Pine Bluff

0.4175%

Cal Poly

0.4175%

Illinois

0.4175%

Incarnate Word

0.4175%

KS State

0.4175%

Lamar

0.4175%

MT State

0.4175%

Nevada

0.4175%

OR State

0.4175%

Portland State

0.4175%

SMU

0.4175%

So. Illinois

0.4175%

South Dakota

0.4175%

UNLV

0.4175%

Weber State

0.4175%

Abilene Chr

0.2088%

Ark State

0.2088%

Cen Arkansas

0.2088%

CSU Bakersfield

0.2088%

CSU Northridge

0.2088%

Drake

0.2088%

E. Washington

0.2088%

Grand Canyon

0.2088%

Idaho

0.2088%

Long Beach St

0.2088%

Milwaukee

0.2088%

MO State

0.2088%

Montana

0.2088%

ND State

0.2088%

NM State

0.2088%

No. Colorado

0.2088%

No. Iowa

0.2088%

Northwestern

0.2088%

Rice

0.2088%

Sacramento St

0.2088%

San Diego St

0.2088%

Steph F Austin

0.2088%

TX State

0.2088%

UC Davis

0.2088%

UC Santa Barbara

0.2088%

UMKC

0.2088%

UTSA

0.2088%

That is why I'm an atheist.

And all considered they still don’t win NCAA titles, team or individual, so what’s the big deal?

This is worse than the Caster Semenya issue.

I just returned home from my mission and I can say that in those two years I went running less than 10 times. That 30 minutes of exercise was mainly used to do some pushups and abs. These kids at BYU do not go on the mission to gain a athletic advantage. You can ask any of them. They go on the mission to serve Jesus Christ and to help others. No one is thinking that it will give them a physical advantage if they dont run for 2 years.

To clarify some misinformation mentioned earlier:

- Missionaries are currently given 45 minutes for exercise 6 days a week. They have to remain with their companion the entire time. It takes a lot of perseverance on the part of the missionary to continue training. You will be lucky if your companion can run 8:00 pace for two miles, so most of the time it will be running back and forth on a short stretch, or around the track if you are lucky to live near one. Or treadmill. Sleep is in theory 8 hours a day, but in practice it often ends up being less. The rest of the time the missionary is proselyting, which is emotionally draining - imagine having to talk mostly with complete strangers for 15 hours a day about a subject you care a lot about that they usually do not - and that often in a language that is foreign to you. My son just got back from Ukraine. Through a lot of grit on his part he has maintained a decent level of fitness, but even though he is two years older, we are right now in the process of fitness recovery to his pre-mission level. He definitely did not go on a mission to become more fit, and we knew that from the very beginning!

- The Church usually does not pay for the mission. A missionary is expected to contribute $400 a month into the missionary fund regardless of where he or she is serving to solve the problem of making the missions difficult to afford if you got called to an expensive place like Japan. Those contributions are pooled together to cover the mission expenses for everybody. So most missionaries - except for the ones with extremely challenging circumstances - serve at their own expense.

age cheaters wrote:

There still hasn't been one cogent response to why the mission can't be done after college. When the mission is over, you'll be exactly the same age as if you did it in the middle of college. You can get married a few times exactly the same as if you did your mission during college instead of after. You can get a job at exactly the same age if the mission is after college or during college. The only true explanation is that it is being used to age cheat.

Because it's extremely inconvenient. Go on a mission, come back, get married in college. You're married at what, 21? Or you could go to college, not get married, go on a mission, get back, and get get married at 26. Going to college first delays a married life by 5 years. That is extremely inconvenient. Especially for Mormon's who like to get married younger than the rest of the country. It is not "exactly the same". A mission is a disadvantage to BYU imo. Their runners who didn't go on missions are more successful than their runners who did. Two of their top 3 runners didn't serve missions. Linkeletter and McMillan. Imagine finishing high school, leaving the country for 2 years, not going running at all, and gaining 45 pounds. Do you really think that you would be as fast as you were at the end of high school? Conner Mantz came back from his mission running 17:30 for 5k. Compare that to the sub 4:10 shape he was in beforehand. And he didn't gain nearly as much weight as most missionaries do. He came back and it took a full year to get back into good shape. Luckily for Mantz, it was only one year. For many guys, it takes even longer.

How do we know that they aren't running? And it's nonsense to say that they have no time to run. They cannot go door to door early in the morning, nor after dark. So, they can run from 4-8 probably in the morning and 7-10 in the evening.

Also, your companion could be at the track without running or doing your workout, or be on a bike while you run on the roads.