Semenya wins in court, is able to race all distances without lowering her testosterone

Honest answers here only:

When watching a marathon where Kipchoge, Farah... compete. When they cut to the women race and interrupt the men race and give equal or higher air time to the women race, what is your first though?

How many NBA/College games have you attended in person or watched on TV? How many WNBA/women College games have you attended or watched (from beg to end) on TV?

What if the level of play on the Female side would increase. Would you watch it more?

Let the SEMENya flow. Another victory for the the far alt Left.

Hhshhsh wrote:

Honest answers here only:

When watching a marathon where Kipchoge, Farah... compete. When they cut to the women race and interrupt the men race and give equal or higher air time to the women race, what is your first though?

How many NBA/College games have you attended in person or watched on TV? How many WNBA/women College games have you attended or watched (from beg to end) on TV?

What if the level of play on the Female side would increase. Would you watch it more?

[quoteGood bye female athletics.[/quote]

The goal is male athletics. Destroy female athletics and then for "equality's" sake you can get rid of the men's. Except for figure skating.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Ever hear of knives?

Then again, their army is notoriously afraid to fight in wars.

With the Swiss Army Knife as their weapon of mass destruction who can blame them.

,

Whether it "should" or "shouldn't", the fact is that at this point it does, at least in part.

Like I said, venal--or at least desperate.

In my world, people get only a basic respect--the rest they have to earn. It is difficult for me to respect the women lining up against Semenya et al, unless they universally have no issue with it, and say so. Silence does not count, it speaks volumes.

I agree. Very poor public communications campaign by the IAAF. They have ceded the ground to the propagandists. And they are losing that battle.

TheProblemIs wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Most women aren't defined that way. They are XX.

The fact 'most' women are XX is completely irrelevant.

Those who aren't XX are not women. They are men calling themselves women. That's fairly relevant.

aasdfa wrote:

Yay! Justice prevails

+1 ?

DSD46XY are biologically male, and unless androgen insensitive (incredibly rare) will have male levels of testosterone - as Caster does and trans athletes do. That is a competitive advantage that women cannot have. They also have other biological advantages by virtue of being male. DSD46XX athletes are essentially female (without testosterone-producing testes) and cannot produce male levels of testosterone, so they have no competitive advantage in women's sports.

RIP women's sports. You are being taken over by mentally ill tranny dudes!

Armstronglivs wrote:

Those who aren't XX are not women. They are men calling themselves women. That's fairly relevant.

So, you believe that as long as they are XX they should be allowed to compete without limitation, right? That's what the IAAF believes and that alone proves that they are as unqualified as you are to make decisions on this matter.

Spending a mere 5 minutes on the DSD Wikipedia page would educate you to the fact that if one has an XY DSD, they are not necessarily male and an XX DSD, the more common condition, DOES NOT necessarily make them female. People like you, who believe as they were taught in elementary school, that XY always = Male and XX always = Female, are ignorant and have not progressed educationally. I learned 1+1 math in elementary school too, then geometry, then algebra, trigonometry, calculus, etc. Your ignorance and lack of academic progression won't even allow you to understand how ignorant you are.

I happen to know an XX DSD male who is a fairly middle of the road athlete. He's around a 4:40 miler and can run a 2:04 for 800. If the IAAF rules were to stand, I guarantee you that I could train him to run elite female times and he would be allowed to do so by your standards. What would your argument be then when a 46, XX DSD male with full male genitalia starts running Diamond League?

You really need to get educated. Dased on my observations, you are one of the few on this site that may actually be salvageable and has a prayer of understanding complex thought processes. You only lack the desire to open your mind and read.

For about the 100th time, I again point you to further reading that could enlighten you to the problem of making generalizations about XX and XY being determinative of biological sex.

Armstronglivs wrote:

DSD46XX athletes are essentially female (without testosterone-producing testes) and cannot produce male levels of testosterone, so they have no competitive advantage in women's sports.

Wrong!

Many 46 XX DSD athletes often have testes. In fact, they often have testes and external male genitalia and they do produce testosterone higher than 5nmol/L.

i read that santhi soundarajan has androgen insensitivity syndrome,and shes xy.she certainly produces testosterone.she has a base baritone voice,and a prominant adams apple,as well as a masculine brow.caster semenya,francine niyonsaba,kabange mupopo,margaret wambui and dorcas ajok are apparently xy,with hyperandrogenism,and intersex conditions.im not sure about dutee chand,or maximillia imali.i think theyre xx,but their bodies produce more testosterone, than "normal" women.im not sure about maria mutola,or pamela jelimo.probably the same.rachel nachula's gender was questioned,but shes probably an xx female,whose body produces testosterone outside the normal range for a woman.

Dr Taboo wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

DSD46XX athletes are essentially female (without testosterone-producing testes) and cannot produce male levels of testosterone, so they have no competitive advantage in women's sports.

Wrong!

Many 46 XX DSD athletes often have testes. In fact, they often have testes and external male genitalia and they do produce testosterone higher than 5nmol/L.

DSD46XX are estimated at 1 in 20,000. The medical literature says they are usually small individuals, physically relatively undeveloped, and while they may have external testes these are also undeveloped (as in the way most men have nipples but not breasts) and hence they do not produce male levels of testosterone - unlike DSD46XY. So how many of them have you personally encountered as athletes? And when have you ever seen one who is successful at elite level - unlike the DSD46XY athletes who took the first 3 places in the Rio 800m?

Quite surprised by what I read here.

A lot of intersex are actually not XY. They have XX cells, XXY ones, even XXYYY. It is way more complex. You have people (often from Zambia or this area btw) with internal ovotestis and testis. Where should they compete?

From the shadows wrote:

Quite surprised by what I read here.

A lot of intersex are actually not XY. They have XX cells, XXY ones, even XXYYY. It is way more complex. You have people (often from Zambia or this area btw) with internal ovotestis and testis. Where should they compete?

This isn't quite correct. The overwhelming majority of people are either XY or XX. DSD are a very small portion of the population - 0.01%. Some DSD will have the ambiguities you point out. But that is why the IAAF is not drawing the line (yet) on gender identity or even chromosomes, but on the ability to produce testosterone beyond what is possible for non-DSD females. Male levels of testosterone are what confers the performance advantage that XX women cannot biologically match. Only DSD46XY have been shown to have that advantage, hence the CAS ruling specifies that group.

From the shadows wrote:

Quite surprised by what I read here.

A lot of intersex are actually not XY. They have XX cells, XXY ones, even XXYYY. It is way more complex. You have people (often from Zambia or this area btw) with internal ovotestis and testis. Where should they compete?

What firstly happens is an athlete reaches 'world class' and then they get drug tested. If they test positive for 'male level' of (naturally occuring) exogenous testosterone, then they would look into the reasoning behind this.

If they were a 46XY DSD with CAIS, it would probably never even be an issue because they wouldn't have a high T level (and they probably wouldn't ever be world class anyway). If they had another DSD, it would have to be something that causes their testosterone to be higher than 5 nmol/ml or again it wouldn't ever be an issue.

Simply put, nobody is ever going to have to declare their DSD unless that DSD is such that having that DSD has given you male levels of sex hormone.

What I don't understand is how anyone who read anything about this condition, and understood the biology of it and the advantages it confers, could hold their head up and compete in races. I know I couldn't.