COMEBACK! Proctor/Trans Canada 2020

jesseriley wrote:

Wrong! We argued for weeks! Over the pace....How much break time & when was it taken....

And of course, why was I such a disgruntled @$$hole for demanding it?

I’m well gruntled now, ha ha. Proctor’s attempt was a wild fantasy, and you can certainly try to keep such records in future. I’m supposed to be so inept at “understanding” your records, so if I can keep them while running 41 miles a day, why can’t anyone else? You said he’s bringing a coach, who should be able to do these things, not anonymously.

So you’re saying his gps from strava with all his splits aren’t available? That’s your basis of your accusation and it’s wrong.

It’s one thing to argue over pacing and things like that but you bring up things that are blatantly false. Here you go. lookup his runs from last year if you want it.

Wrong! SOME starts & finishes aren’t recorded, I don’t think a single function had a recorded stop & start time (and many were cancelled without notice & I repeatedly asked for this information). I recorded most of Al’s bowel movements! (Unless they were part of a longer break.)

Also, don’t forget Prince Edward Island (yes, it’s a province just like Alberta!). Canada’s ?? original charter was signed there, but you chopped it off the original schedule. Professional performers were there in 1860’s costumes downtown in Charlottetown (?), explaining that Ontario used to be called something else? I was just lounging in the shade wondering who were these buskers?

jesseriley wrote:

Wrong! SOME starts & finishes aren’t recorded, I don’t think a single function had a recorded stop & start time (and many were cancelled without notice & I repeatedly asked for this information). I recorded most of Al’s bowel movements! (Unless they were part of a longer break.)

Also, don’t forget Prince Edward Island (yes, it’s a province just like Alberta!). Canada’s ?? original charter was signed there, but you chopped it off the original schedule. Professional performers were there in 1860’s costumes downtown in Charlottetown (?), explaining that Ontario used to be called something else? I was just lounging in the shade wondering who were these buskers?

Again your lack of knowledge is showing. On GPS if you press stop, it affects your time but it’s still tracks total time (I.e., if I were to do a segment and stop half way, it tracks total time, not stopped time). And you are also ignored all the social media pictures showing where he stopped during run..

Anyway, I’m done on this argument. I tried to explain it last year and you seem to just like your story of lack of GPS and stops recorded no matter how much actual proof I provided...you just like your narrative better regardless of facts

Yup, it was fake!

If it tracked total time (110 kms in 12 hrs was common) then he often averaged over 9 kms/hr, including breaks. Al averaged less than 7 (101 kms in 15-16 hours) overall, slower during the first three weeks. He never showed any speed until Ottawa. Yet Al was a WR holder at 1300 miles & Proctor never even had a good 6-day (still doesn’t!). Al should have also been faster because he slept much better & sat down for meals, which provided far more rest.

Beyond record-keeping, one takes breaks during the day to slow down, in effect. It’s always a temptation to run too fast or too far. A steady, grinding rhythm with a similar effort each day works best.

When the pace is wrong, the effects are almost always felt within the first two weeks. The attrition rate is 10-20 times greater, at least, during this time. Kostelnick took a zero day & recovered, which is rare; but his events since show his talent. Pete also never did more than 8 miles beyond his sustainable distance, whereas Proctor did about 25 miles more than the record pace the first day; and the record pace probably was also far beyond him (at least until he gets his multiday legs under him). When I had runners drop out later than this in the transcons I organized, it was a case of obvious problems from the start just getting worse, or (more often) loss of interest. (In some cases loss of interest made runners do risky things.)

I really haven’t seen a pattern similar to what Proctor claimed, other than the first few days when he seemed to fade according to a very familiar pattern.

In addition, the ca. 7300-km distance, so much further than trans-USA, is a heavy burden. Physically I think the body adjusts, but the psychological stamina & discipline are a real burden.

jesseriley wrote:

Wrong! SOME starts & finishes aren’t recorded, I don’t think a single function had a recorded stop & start time (and many were cancelled without notice & I repeatedly asked for this information). I recorded most of Al’s bowel movements! (Unless they were part of a longer break.)

On a GPS track, the time of every start and finish is recorded automatically. In fact, the time of every single point in the track has the time recorded.

In that case all you would need would be the elapsed time of stops. Generally you’re either moving or you’re stopped. So complicated! Besides adding credibility, your coach would simply keep such info to make a pace curve or see what routine works best (I’m assuming you’re finally aware that long sets & an excessive night break work the worst, since that’s what Proctor did last time).

I have yet to meet anyone who has every numerical coordinate on earth ? memorized, so for clarity you may want to throw in the name of a town every once in a while. Proctor was particularly hesitant to mention hamlets like REGINA or WINNIPEG. You’d almost think he didn’t want anyone to know he was there! Don’t worry, we’ll keep reminding you, just like last time.

Again, halfway is traditionally reckoned as the Terry Fox Memorial in Thunder Bay. If you continue to argue this point, or even mention coordinates or longitude, I will again call you a fake!

We were telling you last year that you didn't understand how GPS worked, and you still don't.

That's the difference between you, the only person saying that he cheated, and the rest of us who understand technology and GPS, looked at his Strava last year and didn't see anything suspicious at all.

Like I said earlier, every single point in the GPS track has the time on it. That means that every stop is also recorded while the GPS is on. A rest stop is just a location that doesn't move for a while. So if you download the GPX file from Strava, you can find out exactly how many, where, and when all the stops are.

View the GPX file with a free program like Garmin Basecamp to see all that data. That will tell you everything you want to know. You don't need to memorize latitude and longitude coordinates.

Nope, it was not fake.

Proctor just ran to friggin fast. And that killed him. Typical rookie mistake by the way.

Got it! Stopped time = “awhile!” With such precision, I can see why Proctor’s strategy seemed so random & surprising. Next, we should narrow it down to a long while, a short while, or a third while that is just right! It worked for Goldilocks. That was a fairytale, too!

jesseriley wrote:

Got it! Stopped time = “awhile!” With such precision, I can see why Proctor’s strategy seemed so random & surprising. Next, we should narrow it down to a long while, a short while, or a third while that is just right! It worked for Goldilocks. That was a fairytale, too!

You are like that kid that hates math and doesn't even try to understand. You skipped over my sentence that said:

"So if you download the GPX file from Strava, you can find out exactly how many, where, and when all the stops are."

Exactly how long the stops are is in that data. That is more precise than just "a while".

You could probably find 30 second stops with that data and guess where he took his pee stops. It's all in the GPS track.

Markus, I know you have some reservations about Giannino, whereas I’m a believer. We both believe Kostelnick. Generally, few would take my advice about anything, I know.

4Z (used my fingers because I hate math), I still think you’re missing three (one less finger) critical points: the practice of noting stopped-time is far older even than me, so it’s pointless to argue its merits with me (you just add it up, unless you hate math); Proctor needs to be aware of stopped times for his own benefit; but most of all the pace was too fast if, for instance, Proctor moved smoothly & continuously between the start & finish times for the distance that Strava noted. Whereas any breaks that Proctor took meant he was running that much MORE too fast.

jesseriley wrote:

Got it! Stopped time = “awhile!” With such precision, I can see why Proctor’s strategy seemed so random & surprising. Next, we should narrow it down to a long while, a short while, or a third while that is just right! It worked for Goldilocks. That was a fairytale, too!

You don't know how GPS works. This is why you can't trust records from the past non GPS era.

That’s what Robert Young said!

Their other excuse was the crew didn’t know anything about running, so how could they keep any running records? We were so impressed with their logic!

Eddy Yee. wrote:

jesseriley wrote:

Got it! Stopped time = “awhile!” With such precision, I can see why Proctor’s strategy seemed so random & surprising. Next, we should narrow it down to a long while, a short while, or a third while that is just right! It worked for Goldilocks. That was a fairytale, too!

You don't know how GPS works. This is why you can't trust records from the past non GPS era.

Non GPS records have different errors than GPS tracked transcons. To think that GPS tracking is accurate is an absolute mistake.

You can read about this on the strava page. Not that any transcon distance will probably ever be accurately measured but Strava is probably 1-3% over reporting the distance. The same happened to Jim Walmsley during the HOKA 100k event. His watch told him one thing while he still had to run further. (Walmsley interview with rojo).

And let's not mix up things here. You can record distances as accurately as possible. That was in the past, mile markers, maps and car oddometers (which have a build in + error as well) and now people use GPS. That's fine. You just have to know the limits.

The other thing is cheating.

Again you can't 100% prove a Transcon. There is always a certain amount of "believing" for that runner. Kostelnick had probably plenty of opportunities to cheat where nobody would have seen it. Did he do it. Probably not, but there is no way to actually prove it. And that's the reason why we have races, where people come together and run against each other and see who is faster or can run further.

Thanks, Markus, for mediating a bit.

IMO it’s one more reason that it’s hopeless talking solely about numbers. If you were reading Tron last year, they grew increasingly reluctant to say the names of towns or give non-GPS points of reference. They wouldn’t even admit they were falling behind Al’s progress (even after skipping half a day with the Nanaimo ferry). My original article mentioned an incident at a biker bar in McDonald, Saskatchewan involving cream-filled donuts (don’t ask!). Using the ACTUAL TOWN, we were able to show that their stupid numbers were giving Proctor credit for being on pace when he clearly was behind. In addition I pointed out that they had a whole day leaving Victoria, whereas as Al’s run ended midday. We can only hope they will bring someone this time who can read a map.

Dave Proctors problem was, that he had all these charity meeting set up, he had to attend. A recipe for disaster, if you are on a record attempt for a transcon. I noticed that too. It's not the first time this happens. The crews always want to protect the runner in the social media age and they start spinning the truth. Not mentioning real daily miles and passed cities is part of it.

Another problem with not naming towns (all this is still archived in the original thread last year) was that it prevents people from checking local news for coverage of the run!

But I did check, as I wrote then, and it showed a survival-shuffle by a Frank Meza-type, not the Superman pace we were being told. Medicine Hat & Swift Current were the towns, and there were very few towns big enough, with well-funded local news, who could cover a live event.

Additionally they had coverage from Global News, which does custom work (paid for by the subject). It wasn’t at all clear if there was a financial incentive for some of this fawning coverage or not.

Subsequently they cancelled their events in Regina & Winnipeg, which prevented any live coverage. Maybe they can provide news coverage exclusively through GPS as well, ha ha.