Transgender woman CeCe Telfer currently sits at #2 in NCAA D2 100 hurdles - Watch her DOMINATE here (video)

Ugh!! wrote:

Totally disgusting!! These men are destroying collegiate athletics and this country with these wacko attitudes. The coach sticking up for his male athlete racing against women should be fired.

The coach is a hero. What would you do if a male athlete on your team announced he was going through gender conversion therapy and wanted to continue competing after following the steps required by the NCAA? Would you tell that athlete - sorry you are off the team? Even though the NCAA allows this athlete to compete as a female (after following a certain protocol)?

You'd really have to be a scumbag to kick that athlete off the team in the most vulnerable time of her life. Or to force her to compete as a male when even the NCAA classifies her as a female at that point.

Coach Emerson SUPPORTED his athlete NO MATTER WHAT, knowing that they would both face great criticism. That's what a coach should do. You should apologize to this coach of great character and integrity.

If you are pissed, blame the NCAA for allowing this . But DO NOT shame the coach and the athlete. They have showed more class and bravery then you ever will.

you are a bigot wrote:

Ugh!! wrote:

Totally disgusting!! These men are destroying collegiate athletics and this country with these wacko attitudes. The coach sticking up for his male athlete racing against women should be fired.

The coach is a hero. What would you do if a male athlete on your team announced he was going through gender conversion therapy and wanted to continue competing after following the steps required by the NCAA? Would you tell that athlete - sorry you are off the team? Even though the NCAA allows this athlete to compete as a female (after following a certain protocol)?

What protocol? How do we know she followed this protocol?

utbcw wrote:

Sorry, but what the right to free speech means in this in context includes the right of an employee of a public school to comment about matters of public concern, even if those comments don't align with the mission statement of his employer.

And I'm not trying infringe Coach Emerson's exercising his first amendment rights at all, just pointing out that he is a first class HYPOCRITE for trying to get another coach in trouble for doing so.

you need to retake civics. The bill of rights protects citizens from actions of the government. that is the only context of free speech.

one of the aims of freedom of speech is the free transfer of ideas. The CSI coach can say what he wants without getting arrested (his employer can still fire him for those BIGOTED comments). And Emerson can disagree with him and start a debate about it.

You can be upset that Emerson is "telling on" the other coach by going to the admin, but Emerson is not violating the first amendment (obviously). I would argue that Emerson is fulfilling his civic duty by informing an employer that an employee of theirs is a bigot and may not be suited to coach and mentor young minds.

gender testing wrote:

you are a bigot wrote:

The coach is a hero. What would you do if a male athlete on your team announced he was going through gender conversion therapy and wanted to continue competing after following the steps required by the NCAA? Would you tell that athlete - sorry you are off the team? Even though the NCAA allows this athlete to compete as a female (after following a certain protocol)?

What protocol? How do we know she followed this protocol?

None of your business. The NCAA allowed the athlete to compete as a female, that's all you need to know. If you don't like that, start a petition and send it to the NCAA to change their own rule.

Even if the NCAA allows this, biological males should recognize that they have a massively unfair advantage over females and choose not to compete with females in competitions of athleticism or combat. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Her participation violates the spirit of fair competition and is not praiseworthy or brave.

A person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions. Who is the real bigot?

I’m not calling anyone a nut job. I just feel obliged to point out that real patriots actually believe that having the freedom to express opinions, (especially unpopular ones) is one of the things that makes America so great. People who believe in “freedom of speech for me, but not for thee” are hypocrites, not patriots.

As for the substance of the issue itself, Telfer appears to have won fair and square, by which I mean to say she complied with the NCAA rules. People who don’t like this result should start working to get the rules changed.

utbcw wrote:

2 thoughts.

Telfer's name was Craig, now it's CeCe. (Cedric might have been his middle name?)

Second, Telfer's college coach, Zac Emerson, sent out a tweet today extolling the freedoms of the United States and tied them in to allowing a transgender athlete to compete. In response, a coach from another school commented that Telfer couldn't cut it as a male athlete and that it was unfair for male athletes to compete against women. In reply, Emerson told the other coach that his comments were "unacceptable for a college track coach" and that he was going to demand the administration of the other coach's school explain his behavior. Guess the freedoms Coach Emerson wants to extoll don't include the right of free speech guaranteed by the First Amendment!

The Administration of the other School, almost certainly agree, letting a Man compete against Woman because they say they IDENTIFY as a Woman is an absurdity, Zac Emerson is the one in the wrong, The one who got 2nd in the race THE FIRST REAL WOMAN IN THE RACE is the Woman's Division 2 Champion in most peoples minds, The same garbage the Boys in Connecticut pulled, just another way to cheat. This is a danger to Woman's sports.

Not sure where you got your understanding of the 1st amendment (a coloring book maybe?) but ever since the 1970’s the Supreme Court has held that Constitution does indeed protect public employees from being fired by their employers for expressing their opinions on matters of public concern. The first case so holding is Pickering v. Board of Education. Or you might want to look at a more recent 5th Circuit case which discussed Pickering in greater detail, Martin v. Parrish. (I wrote the appellate brief for the winning party in that case.)

Hopefully the school administration in this case will respond to Coach Emerson’s tattling with a full throated defense of their employee’s first amendment rights, as their policies and procedures manual spells out. The Free and open debate you are so cluelessly engaging in now deserves even more protection in the higher education context.

he shouldn't be fired because of his beliefs. he should be fired because he insulted an NCAA athlete in a bigoted and hateful way.

if you believe his rights have been violated, you can work pro bono for him

Utbcw wrote:

I’m not calling anyone a nut job. I just feel obliged to point out that real patriots actually believe that having the freedom to express opinions, (especially unpopular ones) is one of the things that makes America so great. People who believe in “freedom of speech for me, but not for thee” are hypocrites, not patriots.

As for the substance of the issue itself, Telfer appears to have won fair and square, by which I mean to say she complied with the NCAA rules. People who don’t like this result should start working to get the rules changed.

Everyone here must have failed social studies.

Everyone is entitled to freedom of speech. When you say certain things to certain people, however, there are always repercussions that aren't perpetrated by the government.

For example if you tell your boss that he is the dumbest and ugliest creature in the world, you surely will get fired.

Despite what impostor lawyers will tell you on the internet, your lawsuit will get thrown out in a heartbeat.

Uhhhhh....Martin lost.

"Indeed, the "fundamental values necessary to the maintenance of a democratic political system" disfavors the use of terms of debate highly offensive or highly threatening to others. Nothing in the Constitution prohibits the states from insisting that certain modes of expression are inappropriate and subject to sanction.""

”

Here’s a legal syllogism for you:

Me: I wrote the appellate brief for the winning party in the Martin v. Parrish case.

You: Uhhhh.......Martin lost

Therefore, I must have written the brief for Parrish.

The quotation you cite, while not literally my words, was certainly cited in my brief, and adopted by the Court. So I have no problem with your calling the quote “my words” although I am obliged to point out that you are ignoring the more important part of the opinion in terms of the case itself, which is whether Martin’s statements were opinions about matters of public concern.

Anyway, good luck to the lawyer arguing that the coach’s statements: “Telfer couldn’t cut it as a male athlete” and “Men should not be allowed to compete against women” are so “highly offensive or highly threatening to others” that they should lose the protection afforded by the first amendment to statements of opinion about matters of public concern.

Several posters on this thread have made far more offensive, insulting comments about Ms. Telfer than the above statements, yet you argue that the coach should be fired while ignoring the comments made by these posters. That people like you have no problem ignoring worse statements pretty much proves that the Coach’s statements are not so offensive as to fall outside of 1st Amendment protection.

"Couldn't cut it as a Male athlete" "cheat". Do some of you really think transition to another sex to be successful in sports?

Personally, I have trouble with the ruling that allows transgender women to compete against women nevertheless congratulations to Telfer and her coach.

If she had the standard for the US championship (she’s not too far away), would she be allowed to participate at the championship?

I believe that she is the best US trans athlete right now.

We are seeing large improvements by Trans athlete every year.

First, it was that girl from Alaska in 2016. Then the 2 Connecticut HS girls, who were better than the Alaska girl. Now CeCe, who is very close to the US championship standard. We are very close to seeing a real good Trans athlete who will be able to challenge the best in the Female Category. 2020?

They said his statements were not on matters of public concern. And neither were the statements of this coach.

If he were to say "I believe the NCAA should make this illegal because it's unfair" then you might have a case. Instead he said the athlete couldn't cut it as a man. Then he actually called her a man. Those are insults, he's not trying to have a discussion.

Do you want me to respond to every single nonsense post in this thread? They are all bad people. But they are posting on an anonymous message board, they aren't NCAA coaches posting on their public twitter account. Not much I can do about it so I'll ignore them. They don't deserve to be acknowledged.

An insult is calling somebody ugly because it is an opinion. Stating a fact is not an insult. I couldn’t cut it in the NBA. That is a fact, not an insult. Were people insulting this guy for 20 years by referring to him as a man? I assume he is still the same person.

i dont know what to think.shes not a world class athlete,and she is beatable.still, i suspect if she,or someone like her came out and ran a sub 52,to break the world record,or even sub 53,there would be a huge outcry.i know transgender women are expected to take female hormones,to lower their testosterone,but if world records get broken,i suspect the ncaa,and iaaf will have to change its rules.

Given the recent XY statements, can Ryan Hall go off his meds and start running again but in the Women's?

I am not sure they have made any rules about keeping your block and tackle.

I'd back him to take out the marathon record.