I hope the IAAF makes this stick.
Fine. Wambui can always compete in the men’s (high-T) race.
Oh, that’s right—not fast enough. Just like the rest of us.
How does it feel to be treated normally?
Ha! So Wambui just out him/herself. So stupid. These people are addicted to the money, but they were getting money via purely fraudulent means.
“I am very disappointed; I don’t feel even like going on with the training because you don’t know what you are training for. Why, when you have a high level of testosterone in men, you are likely to perform well and we celebrate that? But when it comes to women we have to tell them to lower it and we draw them out of the competition.
"Why? Why don’t we take maybe men with low testosterone and categorize them as women?”
Not very bright.
Subway Surfers wrote:
“I am very disappointed; I don’t feel even like going on with the training because you don’t know what you are training for. Why, when you have a high level of testosterone in men, you are likely to perform well and we celebrate that? But when it comes to women we have to tell them to lower it and we draw them out of the competition.
"Why? Why don’t we take maybe men with low testosterone and categorize them as women?”
Not very bright.
This made me chuckle. I wonder if Semenya looked cute and like a proper girl would she have been accepted by Coe. If she still managed to be attractive I bet she wouldn't have been banned.
Subway Surfers wrote:
"Why? Why don’t we take maybe men with low testosterone and categorize them as women?”
Why not scrap gender classes for competition and replace them with testosterone classes? Seems like a fairer way of sorting out competition classes....
Subway Surfers wrote:
Ha! So Wambui just out him/herself. So stupid. These people are addicted to the money, but they were getting money via purely fraudulent means.
Is there any evidence that Wambui has testicles or a Y chromosome?
Should Sebastian Coe have been banned when he ran 1:41 because he was so much better than everyone else? Is it fraudulent to have better genes?
What if Wambui is a woman, no Y chromosome, no testicles, and just happens to produce more testosterone than what is normal for a woman her age?
Banana Bread wrote:
Subway Surfers wrote:
“I am very disappointed; I don’t feel even like going on with the training because you don’t know what you are training for. Why, when you have a high level of testosterone in men, you are likely to perform well and we celebrate that? But when it comes to women we have to tell them to lower it and we draw them out of the competition.
"Why? Why don’t we take maybe men with low testosterone and categorize them as women?”
Not very bright.
This made me chuckle. I wonder if Semenya looked cute and like a proper girl would she have been accepted by Coe. If she still managed to be attractive I bet she wouldn't have been banned.
If I were Semenya, I'd definitely have focused a lot more on looks. That and take off from competition for a year and adopt a baby. This would have cast enough of a shadow of a doubt that public opinion, of people in the know, would be divided.
new categories? wrote:
Why not scrap gender classes for competition and replace them with testosterone classes? Seems like a fairer way of sorting out competition classes....
This would not help Semenya et al. in any way. They would fall on the "wrong side" of the testo threshold and either have compete with normal testosterone men or be in a separate class like in the special olympics/paralympics.
In the first case they would be beaten by mediocre men and decent high school boys, in the second case there would be very little interest in these events and almost no money. Very different from collecting DL/Olympics/WC prize money for several years.
why fraudulent? wrote:
Is there any evidence that Wambui has testicles or a Y chromosome?
Apparently IAAF has evidence but I don't think there is anything public.
why fraudulent? wrote:
Subway Surfers wrote:
Ha! So Wambui just out him/herself. So stupid. These people are addicted to the money, but they were getting money via purely fraudulent means.
Is there any evidence that Wambui has testicles or a Y chromosome?
Should Sebastian Coe have been banned when he ran 1:41 because he was so much better than everyone else? Is it fraudulent to have better genes?
What if Wambui is a woman, no Y chromosome, no testicles, and just happens to produce more testosterone than what is normal for a woman her age?
Wambui is reportedly DSD, which means a Y, or male, chromosome. That is why her testosterone levels are so high.
It isn't understood by some commenters here that Wambui (along with Semenya and Nyonsaba) falls within the IAAF rules because she is DSD. The new rules specifically refer to "DSD46XY" athletes, which are athletes who are biologically male. 46XX athletes, those who are biologically female, cannot naturally produce testosterone levels above the limit proscribed by the IAAF. That Wambui is required to reduce her levels to compete shows she is 46XY - i.e. male, biologically.
Kvothe wrote:
Banana Bread wrote:
This made me chuckle. I wonder if Semenya looked cute and like a proper girl would she have been accepted by Coe. If she still managed to be attractive I bet she wouldn't have been banned.
If I were Semenya, I'd definitely have focused a lot more on looks. That and take off from competition for a year and adopt a baby. This would have cast enough of a shadow of a doubt that public opinion, of people in the know, would be divided.
It is important to look good. When Jama Aden was busted Dibaba made a narrow escape because she looks amazing. If she was ugly do you think she would dodged that bullet?
Armstronglivs wrote:
Wambui is reportedly DSD, which means a Y, or male, chromosome. That is why her testosterone levels are so high.
To clarify, DSD is disorder of sex development and refers to all atypical forms of sexual development. Not all DSD's of women involve having a Y chromosome. However, the recent CAS ruling applied specifically to XY DSD's.
Armstronglivs wrote:
It isn't understood by some commenters here that Wambui (along with Semenya and Nyonsaba) falls within the IAAF rules because she is DSD. The new rules specifically refer to "DSD46XY" athletes, which are athletes who are biologically male. 46XX athletes, those who are biologically female, cannot naturally produce testosterone levels above the limit proscribed by the IAAF. That Wambui is required to reduce her levels to compete shows she is 46XY - i.e. male, biologically.
Also, I would use the term genetically male if one really needed to identify the sex. Biologically male is probably harder to define clearly, but would generally mean having a penis and testes and that isn't the case for all 46XY people. There are cases of 46XY people having fully developed ovaries.
That's a fake news story from a Kenyan tabloid.
The IAAF has set the T limit at 5.0nmol/L. That's 60% higher than the 3.0 to 3.1 which is the highest known T for any woman not having a serious disease (tumor growth) that would make her an unlikely candidate for championship athletics.
The average for women is around 0.7.
So ... if you test at higher than the IAAF limit, ain't nothing remotely normal about you. And you are not an XX woman.
Not normal wrote:
The average for women is around 0.7.
So ... if you test at higher than the IAAF limit, ain't nothing remotely normal about you. And you are not an XX woman.
One of Renato's Chinese male marathoners had a .7...
why fraudulent? wrote:
[quote]Subway Surfers wrote:
What if Wambui is a woman, no Y chromosome, no testicles, and just happens to produce more testosterone than what is normal for a woman her age?
These folks with 46XY produce testosterone at a level which is impossible for an XX to produce. The testosterone range for an XX does not even overlap that of anyone with an XY. The fact that Wambui must lower her testosterone level under the new rule means she is an XY, as that testosterone level is 5 times that of the highest in the XX range.