amazing the total media uniformity on Caster Semnya issue

leolenin wrote:

when surely most people's common sense is on the other side

I can't find a single article supporting idea that it prob isn't fair for her to compete against normal females

the standard line seems to be that her high T is TOTALLY INCIDENTAL to her performance bc not everyone with high t is as fast as her, which is really quite a doozy

To be fair, Semenya's situation is a little different than the "but muh sport purity" griefing we usually do here on LR. She didn't decide to be high-T and it's hard not to be sympathetic to her. I don't think many people are claiming that her testosterone levels have nothing to do with her performance - that's kind of a strawman.

cast her vote wrote:

leolenin wrote:

when surely most people's common sense is on the other side

I can't find a single article supporting idea that it prob isn't fair for her to compete against normal females

the standard line seems to be that her high T is TOTALLY INCIDENTAL to her performance bc not everyone with high t is as fast as her, which is really quite a doozy

To be fair, Semenya's situation is a little different than the "but muh sport purity" griefing we usually do here on LR. She didn't decide to be high-T and it's hard not to be sympathetic to her. I don't think many people are claiming that her testosterone levels have nothing to do with her performance - that's kind of a strawman.

Some basically are. This type of stuff that somehow makes it into NY Times.

leolenin wrote:

Some basically are. This type of stuff that somehow makes it into NY Times.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/03/opinion/testosterone-caster-semenya.html

Yeah that article is deffo wack. The authors claim that "for most sports, testosterone levels do not correlate with superior performance" while citing a single study (Pielke 2019) that only compares T levels between women and whose findings can basically be summarized as "there's not much testosterone variance in women". At least it says OPINION on it so you know to take it with a handful of salt. Neither of the authors are athletes or medical professionals.

said study:

leolenin wrote:

cast her vote wrote:

To be fair, Semenya's situation is a little different than the "but muh sport purity" griefing we usually do here on LR. She didn't decide to be high-T and it's hard not to be sympathetic to her. I don't think many people are claiming that her testosterone levels have nothing to do with her performance - that's kind of a strawman.

Some basically are. This type of stuff that somehow makes it into NY Times.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/03/opinion/testosterone-caster-semenya.html

The NYT article;

"The obvious result is discrimination against female athletes such as Semenya who have naturally high levels of testosterone. But the harm doesn’t stop there."

Everything about the article makes it seem like Caster is just a normal woman who just happens to have high T levels. The article purposely ignores the fact that Castor has DSD, and so her high T level are not just a statistical oddity, but are the result of the Y chromosome (or piece of Y chromosome) that is in every cell of her body.

But the average idiot who still reads the NYT with any sense of trust, will be lead astray and think the IAAF is hell bent on persecuting women.

what is left unsaid? wrote:

The NYT article;

"The obvious result is discrimination against female athletes such as Semenya who have naturally high levels of testosterone. But the harm doesn’t stop there."

Everything about the article makes it seem like Caster is just a normal woman who just happens to have high T levels. The article purposely ignores the fact that Castor has DSD, and so her high T level are not just a statistical oddity, but are the result of the Y chromosome (or piece of Y chromosome) that is in every cell of her body.

But the average idiot who still reads the NYT with any sense of trust, will be lead astray and think the IAAF is hell bent on persecuting women.

Unfortunately you're right. Hacks gonna hack. All you can do is educate with grace and candor and resist the urge to hack back.

That article was very weak, but the Times followed up the next day or two with a pretty fair, balanced scientific treatment of both sides.

cast her vote wrote:

leolenin wrote:

when surely most people's common sense is on the other side

I can't find a single article supporting idea that it prob isn't fair for her to compete against normal females

the standard line seems to be that her high T is TOTALLY INCIDENTAL to her performance bc not everyone with high t is as fast as her, which is really quite a doozy

To be fair, Semenya's situation is a little different than the "but muh sport purity" griefing we usually do here on LR. She didn't decide to be high-T and it's hard not to be sympathetic to her. I don't think many people are claiming that her testosterone levels have nothing to do with her performance - that's kind of a strawman.

She has high T because Semenya is CHROMOSOMALLY A MALE. How do you not get that? I hate that she's born that way, but it shouldn't be a reason to allow her to run with the females.

I believe Semenya has an unfair advantage and I don't like watching her race, but all the hate for her that shows up for her on this site is unfair. She was identified as female at birth and raised as one. I believe she is sincere in that she should be allowed to run against women and even if she wasn't I wouldn't blame her. She grew up in poverty and to not take the opportunity to improve the living conditions for her family would be wrong.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

I believe Semenya has an unfair advantage and I don't like watching her race, but all the hate for her that shows up for her on this site is unfair. She was identified as female at birth and raised as one. I believe she is sincere in that she should be allowed to run against women and even if she wasn't I wouldn't blame her. She grew up in poverty and to not take the opportunity to improve the living conditions for her family would be wrong.

Was she raised as a girl? From my understanding the only thing she chooses to take a female role in, is athletics.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

I believe Semenya has an unfair advantage and I don't like watching her race, but all the hate for her that shows up for her on this site is unfair. She was identified as female at birth and raised as one. I believe she is sincere in that she should be allowed to run against women and even if she wasn't I wouldn't blame her. She grew up in poverty and to not take the opportunity to improve the living conditions for her family would be wrong.

Women's sport is a biological category, or it is merely a fantasy. It certainly isn't a job application, where anyone can apply. I, too, can "sincerely" believe I am female; I, too, have male chromosomes, testes, testosterone, no ovaries and no womb. And then after race day I can revert - till the next race. As Semenya does.