I have difficulty recovering from interval workouts

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Lt.DanTaylor wrote:

What is like to know is whether this is a common issue for runners who start relatively late, i.e. late 20s as compared to HS?

It's not your age, it's your body/muscle makeup. I was like that back in high school. It would take me 2 weeks to recover from each hard workout. Since I started late in high school (jr. year) and didn't have great coaching, I didn't figure out training that worked for me until later. I was basically over trained throughout those two years, only ran 4:46/10:00.

Running on my own in college, basically just long easy singles every day (kind of like the thread where the guy is doing 13 miles a day at 10 minutes per mile), I added a 6 mile tempo run about once a week, and that was enough for me to make a huge jump in performance. I'd run the 6 mile tempo when I felt like it, and as hard as I felt like (sometimes cruising it, sometimes more of a time trial), and eventually was doing them under 5:00/mi pace. Even as fast as that, I recovered well from them, because they were easier than the intensity (VO2 max) that made me burn out easily. I think making my tempos 6 miles long helped me self regulate the intensity from going too high into my red zone.

For you, maybe skip the VO2 max type workouts. Leave that type of stimulus for races.

recovery? wrote:

Are you doing the right stretching, foam rolling, and/or deep tissue massage? That can accelerate recovery from hard efforts.

No it can't. If your muscles are damaged from running, they repair themselves without those things.

aodfjasdfj wrote:

recovery? wrote:

Are you doing the right stretching, foam rolling, and/or deep tissue massage? That can accelerate recovery from hard efforts.

No it can't. If your muscles are damaged from running, they repair themselves without those things.

OK -- true, muscle damage yes needs time, but I've learned over time that things I thought needed rest really needed stretching, foam rolling, etc. I could barely walk in morning due to stiff ankles after hard workouts/volume, but learned a lot of the ankle issue was tightness in calfs and up the chain. I thought knots where strains, etc.

OP here again,

Thanks for all the advice. Much food for thought.

Some takeaway messages for me:

1) Vo2max pace is a new stimulus and I can't just jump straight into a typical workout of this type every week. Rather, ease in with a smaller number of repeats, and/or do alternate weeks.

2) don't neglect my strides

3) easy runs easy. I'm usually good at this, and do easy 60-70 min runs at about the paces suggested above, unless my legs are fresh from a break from running then the pace tends to creep up much higher. But I will refrain from turning easy runs into progression runs.

Regarding other advice about cross training and recovery, I do a lot of cross training, including weights, cycling, swimming and rowing machine.

This might be why the Vo2 max workouts feel good while I'm doing them, but bad the next day. I think my aerobic capacity might be stronger than my legs' capacity to take a beating.

recovery? wrote:

aodfjasdfj wrote:

No it can't. If your muscles are damaged from running, they repair themselves without those things.

OK -- true, muscle damage yes needs time, but I've learned over time that things I thought needed rest really needed stretching, foam rolling, etc. I could barely walk in morning due to stiff ankles after hard workouts/volume, but learned a lot of the ankle issue was tightness in calfs and up the chain. I thought knots where strains, etc.

Knots or adhesions in the muscles need several days for recovery. Trying to remove them with friction massage (the most extreme method) is really just an attempt to force yourself back in to training or racing before you are recovered, it doesn't really work.

It's normal during the peak training periods to be very stiff getting out of bed, but it usually passes by the time we have run a mile or two slowly. If not, and you can't even run slowly without soreness, it's best to stop and walk to avoid making it worse.

OP here again wrote:

I think my aerobic capacity might be stronger than my legs' capacity to take a beating.

Yes, it will be. Think about a professional cyclist trying to run. Their legs will take a heck of a beating and it would take a very long time to adapt. A runner adapting to cycling would have a hard time too, but would probably adapt somewhat quicker.

Are you doing these Vo2 workouts on a track? If the track is an old one it will tire your legs sooner. The best approach is to run repeats on a trail loop. Try to find a trail with a softer surface like pine needles or worn down grass. The loop should be about 3 min to run at tempo pace. Then you can run your repeats by feel you should be cutting each one down in time. You do not need to know the distance of the loop this way it keeps you from racing the efforts.

You may well have a preponderance of slow-twitch muscle fiber, and finding it hard to bounce back from a faster workout, but handling long runs well, would be typical of that profile.

I'm the opposite. I'm probably best at 3000m although I managed to get an age group state record at 10k. I really struggle with long runs at any pace when coming back off a break, and unless I jogged it, would be pretty beaten up by a 14 mile run. On the other hand, I really enjoy track repeats/intervals, and come out of them feeling good.

I think it is just a question of respecting your weak area and having caution when doing that type of workout. So, I have to be very careful with long runs. The suggestions on here to move towards Tinman type training - 10k pace reps and strides - would probably work well for you, with just a few specific sessions to dial in race pace.

I don't know about my fibers, but I think I have aculturated my legs to long slow runs because of how I approached starting running four years ago, which was coming from a base of zero fitness and just trying to run further each time. Later when I did occasionally do fast running it would be 1000 meters all out. No repeats. Basically, a very disordered approach. It's only over the past 2 and a half years that I've read about proper training approaches, but even then have predominantly focused on half marathon distance. Hence, much mote comfortable with long runs and tempos.

I run on a recently resurfaced track sometimes, but also on a grass oval, and a compacted dirt trail, as well as road. I find grass is best for minimising wear and tear on the legs, but the track is pretty good too.

Digging up this old thread. If I'm struggling to walk because my lower legs feel too tight is this a sign of overtraining and damaged muscles?

If so I wonder if pure rest is the ideal solution vs more massages and stretching techniques.

OP here wrote:I run on a recently resurfaced track sometimes, but also on a grass oval, and a compacted dirt trail, as well as road. I find grass is best for minimising wear and tear on the legs, but the track is pretty good too.

If all your running has been longer, you don't have the same "base of speed" as someone who grew up doing track workouts in their teens and at college, with all the associated short workouts, drills and maybe weights and plyos. So a workout at that pace probably literally makes your muscles sore.

I'm with the older poster who said to do strides 3x per week. Grass is great for this; if you run anywhere near playing fields, do 4-6 strides the length of a playing field a couple of times per week. And some shorter strides up hills (10-30 seconds) once a week. And no V02-max stuff! Cut out some of the other cross training too. Think of it liking starting doing weights; you just want to get to the point where your legs can do that, with good form, and recover from it. After a few weeks or months of strides, doing 5x1000 won't be "faster than usual" and thus might not be a muscular strain.

Shorter interval sessions. Longer rests. Like full on rests. A day of no running.

Try standing rest for any interval work. Another thing, try shorter stuff at mile pace with full rest first before moving onto longer 5k pace stuff. The shorter stuff will teach your body proper running mechanics at faster speeds and prep you for the V02 stuff later on.

Classic example workout for a 50 mpw guy:

10 x 400m @ mile pace w/ 2:00-3:00 standing rest. It's a rather boring session but does the trick early season.

How long are you taking to try to recover from VO2 max sessions OP? Are you doing 2-3 sessions/week? Are you doing 1 session & a race? Or are you doing 1 VO2 max session every two weeks or so? My guess is somewhere in the first two when you should be doing something closer to the last option. It's also winter & a great times for tempos/base work.

I think people who come to running later try to do a weekly VO2 max workout because that's how they were introduced to speed work. & it works for a while. When you've never done hard workouts & start doing a weekly group workout, you make big gains right away.

Now that you're running 18:30, you should be more structured with your training. If you're focused on the 5k, you should do 4 workouts in a 2 week cycle -- 1 VO2 (5k specific), 1 @ 10k or threshold, 1 tempo, & 1 with short reps (3k or faster). The volume will be different for these workouts & this assumes decent mileage, a long run, and strides twice a week. & that's the training in a nice 12-16 5k block. You should have some down weeks before/after you cycle up again.

The below article is helpful. You don't reap the benefits of a VO2 max session for 10-14 days & it's completely normal to feel tired or feel like you've lost fitness up to 7-8 days after a session. That's why you're going to touch on other paces & let your body absorb the training instead of doing weekly VO2 max sessions.

https://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/how-long-before-you-benefit-from-a-workout/