I'll do anything for sub 17.

I'm getting an idea about what I have to do now.

Just mileage work for now. Work on my base.

Then introduce quality work by August.

Can I run some road races during my base phase? Just for some fun?

Thank you!

Can I run some road races during my base phase? Just for some fun?

Thank you!

Absolutely! This will help keep training fun. Even if you're not seeing times drop over summer training, you'll be better for it once you introduce speed work during the season. Trust the process!

Best advice ive seen so far

I think you would be fine running 35MPW all summer but you may want to progress. Start by including a workout or two per week in your normal 35 miles. Do that for 3-4 weeks and if you feel good, bump up by 4 or so miles per week and hold that for 2-3 weeks, and see how you feel, I wouldn't suggest going any higher than 45-50. Do it gradually. Given how you ran 18:30 off really not much training at all, 35-40 MPW and workouts would bring your times down fast. Just work on speed/form with some hill sessions, then do a tempo run or fartlek to work on the aerobic side. Don't kill yourself in these sessions. Just good consistent work.

I don’t understand?

You run 4:47 and your PB is 17:22...you are FT.

I run 5:19 and my PB is 17:21...

You have speed! You need endurance bro. Long easy running.

Idk if I would say 4:47 is blazing speed or ft, but its fast enough. My first ever sub 5 mile came during a 5k. I crashed hard for a 16:50

There are a lot of posts about the actual training but it's important to remember that to handle that increase in volume you will likely need to help build the core strength to maintain your new speed/engine.

I would strongly encourage you to look into a hip/core exercise routine. Maybe something like Coach Jay Johnson's Hip Routine (Myrtl/SAM)

Best of luck!

Trust me, I know my 5k doesn't come close to matching up with my mile (definitely not blazing fast obviously). It's super frustrating that I haven't been able to dip under yet. I've run consistently 45-55 mpw when I'm not hurt and I haven't been able to get it done.

sub 17 is possible. I ran 16:12 (previous PR was 17:08 which I also ran last July) this April on 3 months of consistent training with a gradual build in mileage to about 40 ish miles a week.

Here are things that helped me, extrapolate what you will which could apply to you, although everyone responds different to training:

- Mostly easy mileage (in my case I ran as slow as high 9 minute miles usually in the mid 8s but the pace doesn't matter as long as it is allowing your body to truly recover)

- 15- 20 minutes of either

1) CV paced k's each week (Which you build up to starting from only about 12 minutes)

2) Fartleks of 1 minute on .5 minute off at 2 mile 3200 minute pace followed faster paces (800m pace) of say 20 seconds on 40 seconds off (always double the rest for faster than mile pace), T

3) Tempo/Threshold 2-4 miles, Hill Sprints (short) at 800m pace, Hill repeats (200m- 300m) at mile pace.

- CV pace is not "aspirational pace" but rather based objectively on your current fitness either from a race or a time trial

- strides on every other easy day

I am also 30 years old so my coach only had me do workouts every three days not two. I am not sure if this is because i am not an experience runner or what i need to ask him lol. I also ran everyday but this may not also be necessary, since I also didn't do any classic "long runs" which I also need to ask my coach about.

Good luck!

Hopingforsub17 wrote:

I'm currently a 18:28 5k runner with 2 months of training.

I wanna be able to run sub 17 by xc season. It's a real big jump, I know. But I really wanna do it. So please guys, please tell me what should I do for this.

I ran my 18:28 with 35mpw and peaked at about 37.

A long run for me is 10 miles. Easy runs from 4-7 miles.

I've mostly run easy and a long run once a week. I ran very less speed and I'm feeling like that's why I'm not that fast.

So you guys please help to make a training plan for me.

Given your amount of experience and your mileage, you'll improve far more by running more mileage than running fast speed work. Speed work sharpens the fitness that's already there, but mileage and tempo runs improve your fitness. I would focus on increasing your mileage. Do this during the summer:

M- easy 6-8 miles

T- easy 6-8 miles

W- 20 min warm up, 20 min tempo, 10-20 min cool down

T- easy 6-8 miles

F- easy 6-8 miles

S- easy 10-12 miles long run

S- easy 4-6 miles

As you get more fit you'll get closer to running on the higher end (8 miles and 12 miles) than the lower end (6 miles and 10 miles) and your fitness will improve like crazy then you'll be ready for sub 17 5k in XC in the fall. Hope that helps.

SBtrack wrote:

I would strongly encourage you to look into a hip/core exercise routine. Maybe something like Coach Jay Johnson's Hip Routine (Myrtl/SAM)

Can you post a link on this?

I am interested, but having trouble finding things with a Google search.

Hopingforsub17 wrote:

Thank you so much. Looks like a real great plan. I'll be starting next week.

What about intervals though? And I should run strides after the easy runs yeah?

DON'T FOLLOW THAT PLAN.

If you do, you're toast.

yes, i know this is probably a troll

When I first broke 17, my PRs were:

800m = 2:16

1000m = 2:52

1600m = 4:50

3200m = 10:22.

Idk if that's fast twitch or not, but now im:

800m =1:55

1000m = 2:41 (off race)

1600m = 4:16

3200m = 9:17

5000m = 14:56

5k (cross) = 15:19

Lemme know LetsRun am I FT or ST?

Thanks! That is awesome info. Was that all during your base phase? Just curious as to what you did in your pre-competitive/competitive phases of your season to get you to improve that much. That is really great improvement in 9 or so months!

Random thoughts and advice :

-Whatever path you choose, consider one of your primary goals is to stay injury free and progress gradually . You have all summer, don't rush things. It takes time for your body to adapt.

-As some of the others mentioned, slowly introducing to light up-tempo runs will benefit you overall.

-I think you have a shot at hitting your goal, but times on XC courses are not as important as place finishes. Every course is different. Focusing on getting a fit and as you can and staying healthy should be your goal - if you train, eat, and rest, pace yourself properly you will reach your maximum potential.

-Think about jumping into a few local 5K road races between now and XC season. That will give you an opportunity to gauge your progress and not get stale from just training. Don't stress out over them - I idea will be just to keep you sharp and run with some others (with the added benefit of give you some practical speedwork). Even when I am training for 1/2 or full marathons I try and jump in a local 5k every month to six weeks, just to stay sharp.

-The advice about getting some outside coaching is a good one. Almost everyone can benefit for some outside perspective. I was self coached from about 24 up until 38 then finally reached out and got some great coaching from the winner of the 1984 US Olympic marathon trials. Best $$ I ever spent. PR'd in the marathon at close 40 years old.

-Lastly, I was was 18:30 XC in High school (1970s ha!) but was still running 17:00 until I was in my early 40s. (note, I have very limited genetic talent, just stubborn). You can do this, just be smart, be patient, and stay the course.

Keep up posted on your progress!

Listen to Flagpole's advice, he's spot on. Don't be doing any speed work this summer. You can certainly run strides though 2-3 times per week. Also, feel free to jump into a race here and there if you want to keep the rust off, but I wouldn't do more than a few this summer. If you're bored out of your mind with just easy mileage, it's okay to throw in a 20 minute tempo once every other week. But the main focus is building up mileage from 35 MPW to 50+ by August in a very simple way. 3 weeks at 35, 1 down week, then 3 weeks at 40, 1 down week, etc. until you get to 50.

I was pretty similar to you. Junior year i ran 18:48. I trained a lot over the winter that year after xc and in the summer. The summer was where i got the most gains. I lost like 8 pounds. I ran about 40-55 mpw with some doubling. The 55 mpw was when i was doubling, 20-30 minutes in the am and 45-60 in thr pm. I ended up running 17:05, although i had a lot of injury troubles. I was out for three weeks total. I think this was due to barely running at all to running a ton. When the season came, I got injured right away. I would recommend doing some semi hard workouts in the summer. When speed workouts wereintroduced at the start of xc, this was probably why i got injured. i think i definitley would have broken 17 if it was not for being injured.

Good luck, i know you can do it as you are already faster than me in xc.

Thanks or the amazing info ma man!

Yes, staying injury-free is always too priority for me. I'll take it easy.

I might introduce tempo runs once in 2 weeks or so.

I'll be running road races often just to stay fresh and confident about my current level and try improving my race strategy.

I'm definitely hyped to start my training again, this time to right way.

I'll be adding some core and strength couple of times a week.

All of you guys together contributed some real gold for cracking sub 17. Even if I don't run under 17, I'll be close.

Thanks a bunch!

Just train progressively and do balanced work. On letsrun people seem to have the thought that you're not "allowed" to race certain times unless you pay your dues with XX amount of mileage for so long. This is BS.

Check out the 1:15 half thread for ,more evidence of this.