Barry Bonds.....please give me a break!

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Mike_McCready wrote:

Barry Bonds playing 100 games per year is more valuable than Cal Ripken playing 162. He's just that much better of a hitter.

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Well, maybe a little better but 62% better? I don't think so. Cal is one of only 7 players to ever hit 400 plus home runs along with over 3000 hits. Barry will probably get there too but it will take another 4 seasons or so if he stays healthy and does not take too many days off.

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Mike_McCready wrote:

Is it possible that if Ripken had taken a day of or two, his production would've been better, and he would've helped his team more?

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I think 2 AL MVP's and AL Rookie of the years tells me he helped his team.

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Mike_McCready wrote:

Give me a break.

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You are starting to sound like Barry-ha! Anyway, he is a Great player. Just wish guys like him had the heart and soul of a Cal Jr. who played even when he did not "feel" like it.

Man I'm going to take some flak for this, but here goes:

When Cal Ripken is voted into the Hall of Fame (and he will be), he will have the lowest batting average of any position player at .276.

In full seasons, Cal batted over .300 only 4 times.

He had more than 200 hits in a season just twice.

He is best known for his streak, but his 431 homers and 3184 hits would have gotten him into the Hall without the streak.

The above are all facts. Now time for my opinion.

Cal Ripken Jr. was a very good player who because he played every day had enough at bats to put up Hall Of Fame numbers. If we had to look more closely at his batting average, on base percentage, number of at bats per home run, he would not fall anywhere near those enshrined in Cooperstown.

Cal Ripken Jr. was an average fielder with moderate range who didn't make a lot of errors because he just simply didn't get to a lot of balls that others did.

Of course I can say if this and if that, but to me he is just an above agerage player with two stellar seasons (when he won MVP) and the longevity to make his stats look great. If I were a voter, I would pass him up the first time and then reconsider and probably eventually put him in (only because there is extra stigma attached to a first-time ballot inductee that I don't think he deserves). I mean if Tony Perez eventually got in, then Cal Ripken Jr. deserves to be put in. I just don't think Ripken was the great player many think he was.

Lot of baseball here for a running site.

I promise to stop after this.

Listed below are some players who in my mind either had better careers, did a better job comparatively at their position during the time they played, or had stellar years in a row but won't make the Hall because they didn't have the longevity.

Jim Rice

Gary Carter

Dale Murphy

Keith Hernandez

David Concepcion

Don Mattingly

Stepay,

Hall of Famer Bill Mazeroski's career average is .260

Cal Ripken IS a first ballot hall of famer. He redefined the position of SS before A-Rod even picked up a glove. He wasn't the greatest defensive SS of all time but his defense was far beyond average. He positioned himself exceptionally well and had a very good arm.

I used to love baseball as much as the next "true American", but that was before I became a die-hard endurance athlete and realized what real sports are. Don't get me wrong, hitting a 90 mph fastball is probably one of the hardest things to do period. What pisses me off is the fact that there needs to be a strike every 7-10 years. If they strike again I will never watch the sport again. Back to my other point, hitting a round ball doesn't imply anything about athleticism. These players with the exception of a select handful, are lazy as hell. What other sport could you succeed in where you are that overweight (besides O-line, I guess) and out of shape. At least these O-lineman have to prove themselves athletically at preseason camps because sheer fatness doesn't cut it anymore in the NFL. Ballplayers are overpaid it is that simple, they need a salary cap like every other "cool" American sport.

Stepay, I give Cal a little more credit than that. I think that for most of his career (up until about '96, 97 or so), he had a ton of value, simply by virtue of being one of the best hitting SHORTSTOPS in the game. It's very hard to find a good hitting shortstop, so Cal added a lot of value to his team.

Now, in response to the poster who said that Barry still has a long ways to go in terms of "catching" Cal (3000 hits), that number doesn't say much in terms of who is the better player. Who were the best two hitters ever? Well, you can argue a lot, but Babe Ruth and Ted Williams would be in almost anyone's top 5. Did either of them have 3000? Nope. The best hitters in the league almost never get 200 hits in a season, because they're too busy walking and hitting homeruns, doing a lot more damage with their hits than the .335/210 hits singles hitters do.

Barry wasn't 62% better than Cal, but he's still been a SIGNIFICANTLY more valuable player over the course of his career, and he's easily the best hitter in the last 20 years.

Good point, and it made me think of something. Thanks for calling me on it. Wasn't trying to give bad info, just got some wires crossed.

Ozzie Smith just entered the Hall, and he had a career average of .262, so he is lower than Cal. I forgot about him.

You are right about Bill Maz, but he was voted in by the Veterans Committee, and I guess that should count because he is in, but he didn't get in by a vote of the Baseball Writers.

I realized after reading your post where my main error was though - Cal's average is the lowest among those with 3,000 hits or more. I guess that's not a bad group of players to be lumped in with, and as I said, ultimately I think he deseves to be in the Hall, but if I had a vote, I wouldn't put him in in his first year of elegibility, but I know that I have a minority opinion there and that he will go in the first time.

Mike_McCready,

I knew I would get disagreement. You are right about everything you say about him of course, and I agree with everything except that I don't think he is a first ballot guy. I'd vote for him the second time around, but there wouldn't be a chance because he will go in the first time, and he has perhaps the chance to have the highest percentage vote (the highest is either George Brett or Tom Seaver, but I think it is Brett).

Your point about good hitters not necessarily getting 200 hits in a season is a good one, but it kind of puts my point into persepective. Even though Cal had 431 home runs, the highest he ever hit was 34, and he only got more than 30 that one year. He was consistently good every single year, but I don't think pitchers feared him or that teams felt they needed to stop him in order to win the way teams though of Johnny Bench and Reggie Jackson and Barry Bonds.

Anyway, Cal was a very good player and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. Actually, there are many players I'd take out of there so that it really stayed a Hall of Fame. I would have made Robin Yount wait a bit longer even though he had 3000 hits, and through no fault of his own, I would have made Kirby Puckett wait another year too, but I understand the situation there. He certainly had a Hall of Fame career.

Anybody want to buy some baseball cardS??? I've got all the good ones' rookies, and I would love to sell them to you guys!

Halls of fame are dumb American institutions anyway and are absolutely meaningless in the grand scheme.

So what if Barry gets in, he'll never have won a ring or even a penant for that matter.

I was at a Giants game recently with another runner, and I commented at how easy it would be to fake being Barry. Now just suppose that you looked exactly like Barry Bonds but you had the same athletic skills that you now have. I bet you could go through a whole game and no one would be the wiser. Not too many balls come his way, a few easy pop/ups. Sure you might make an error or two if a line drive happens to come your way, but most innings you could just stand there in left field doing nothing. Now, at the plate, I wouldn't even try swinging the bat. Barry gets walked about 50% of the time, but even if you were called out on strikes, that happens to him quite a bit too, so the fans would just boo the ump, and you'd be fine.

Sure, eventually people would figure it out, but you could get away with it for quite a while.

Now, suppose you (or Barry) looked exactly like Geb or Tergat, how many laps could you run in a track 10K before people would figure something was up?

Barry Double wrote:

Now, suppose you (or Barry) looked exactly like Geb or Tergat, how many laps could you run in a track 10K before people would figure something was up?

Dude, it would be simple. You go out in 61-62 for your 5K, then you start hopping on one leg and grab the other hammy with that leg bent (a la Greene vs. Johnson). Maybe you could even fall down, wincing in pain. That would by you TWO months as Geb, Tergat, etc.

At the risk of sounding like Coolio (I'm sure JEH finds that ironic and funny) I must say that that last post of yours was pretty funny.

I'll go JEH a step further and say that many of us could even hang on for 2 laps at that pace before having to pull up lame.

As far as professional athlete lookalikes go, Tony Dorsett looks just like a young Flip Wilson.

Well, since Barry's hat size is three sizes larger than it was in 2000 - and since he did go from 185 to 235 between the '00 and '01 seasons, it sure would be interesting to find out his juicing protocol, and compare it to say, those used by the weightmen in track and field.

actually, barry doesn\'t get called out quite a bit on strikes. contrary the the mcgwire mold, which is homer or K, barry is a pretty impressive hitter, about second in the NL right now at .359 . therefore, you\'d look like a fool if you stood there and got called out on strikes a couple of times. ass clown.

Barry Bonds = Ben Johnson

http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/755046.asp

Dude, take your medication and calm down.

Beeker wrote:

Stepay,

Hall of Famer Bill Mazeroski's career average is .260

Cal Ripken IS a first ballot hall of famer. He redefined the position of SS before A-Rod even picked up a glove. He wasn't the greatest defensive SS of all time but his defense was far beyond average. He positioned himself exceptionally well and had a very good arm.

Maz was voted in by the Veteran's committee which is kind of a sympathy group for somewhat deserving players.

Agreed that Ripken is a first balloter. He did revolutionize the position although there were offensive SS's before him such as Ernie Banks.

Was this an attempt to prove how little you know about baseball? If it was excellent post.