CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN WHY SEMENYA CAN RUN 5K AND 10K WITH HIGH TESTOSTERONE?

Good question.

T for females is supposedly performance enhancing at longer distances.

That's why this decision doesn't make sense. ?

It is an advantage for any distance. She doesnt have the endurance (yet) to dominate these events. Breaking 15min is hard for the vast majority of guys who run and the best women's times now are getting closer to 1430, probably with the help of some EPO. The IAAF knows it's an advantage for all events but had to step in because it was unfair to real women in 800 and 1500 who were getting beat by someone exploiting the loophole and making a mockery of the sport.

WEHYWERHWERW wrote:

Why would she be allowed to run longer distances without suppressing her levels? Surely testosterone is advantageous for longer distances as well?

There's not enough data to prove an advantage in those events. Just like it's racist/sexist/transphobic to believe what your eyes are telling you when you see Semenya obviously has a man's body. It's racist/sexist/transphobic to use common sense and state that women in men's body have advantages in running events, other than 400, 800, and kind of 1500 where they have enough data to support those claims.

It's going to take a 46 XY woman to make a mockery of the 10000 for a few years until there is enough data points to prove that letting 46 XY women into the 10000 will make a mockery of the event.

It's because the governing body doesn't care about those longer distance events. If they put similar restrictions on the sprints, they would not have many competitors.

The science supports Rupp/Salazar now doesn't it???

Bands a make hoes dance wrote:

It is an advantage for any distance. She doesnt have the endurance (yet) to dominate these events. Breaking 15min is hard for the vast majority of guys who run and the best women's times now are getting closer to 1430, probably with the help of some EPO. The IAAF knows it's an advantage for all events but had to step in because it was unfair to real women in 800 and 1500 who were getting beat by someone exploiting the loophole and making a mockery of the sport.

Her being allowed to run 5/10 is bizarre, but it doesn't really matter. No one who is near world-class at 400 is going to be competitive at 5/10 K.

Bands a make hoes dance wrote:

It is an advantage for any distance. She doesnt have the endurance (yet) to dominate these events. Breaking 15min is hard for the vast majority of guys who run and the best women's times now are getting closer to 1430, probably with the help of some EPO. The IAAF knows it's an advantage for all events but had to step in because it was unfair to real women in 800 and 1500 who were getting beat by someone exploiting the loophole and making a mockery of the sport.

So, if Semenya developes the endurance and starts dominating the 5000, then the IAAF steps in and makes her take hormone suppression meds like the requirement for her in the 8 & 15?

What's Going On Here? wrote:

Bands a make hoes dance wrote:

It is an advantage for any distance. She doesnt have the endurance (yet) to dominate these events. Breaking 15min is hard for the vast majority of guys who run and the best women's times now are getting closer to 1430, probably with the help of some EPO. The IAAF knows it's an advantage for all events but had to step in because it was unfair to real women in 800 and 1500 who were getting beat by someone exploiting the loophole and making a mockery of the sport.

So, if Semenya developes the endurance and starts dominating the 5000, then the IAAF steps in and makes her take hormone suppression meds like the requirement for her in the 8 & 15?

As stated above, the IAAF had studies and data to support their rule on testosterone limitations on the women's mid-distance events. They did not have similar data for races above 1500M and were rightfully concerned that if they made their rule cover all women's events without supporting data, that the CAS would throw out the rule. I would expect that as soon as they can acquire data to support what anyone with common sense and a little bit of biology knowledge already knows, they will expand the rule to all women's events.

What's Going On Here? wrote:

Bands a make hoes dance wrote:

It is an advantage for any distance. She doesnt have the endurance (yet) to dominate these events. Breaking 15min is hard for the vast majority of guys who run and the best women's times now are getting closer to 1430, probably with the help of some EPO. The IAAF knows it's an advantage for all events but had to step in because it was unfair to real women in 800 and 1500 who were getting beat by someone exploiting the loophole and making a mockery of the sport.

So, if Semenya developes the endurance and starts dominating the 5000, then the IAAF steps in and makes her take hormone suppression meds like the requirement for her in the 8 & 15?

No. The IAAF has a very limited database of top-level athletes with DSDs work with. As a result of the small database, the IAAF could only "prove" that high T affects the 400-1500m. Of course, anyone with half a brain knows that T helps in shorter and longer distances. Otherwise, it wouldn't be on WADA's banned list of substances.

However, Semenya appears to be a 400/800 type runner. In spite of her testosterone advantage, she appears to lack the other genetics to be a great 5k/10k runner.

I can't. I was wondering about the same thing.

This case gets more insane by the minute. So if you have increased male hormones and male development for decades it will only help you at the shorter distances. Total genius move by the IAAF. Does anyone wonder why track is a complete joke? These are the idiots guiding the sport. Just like when the IAAF stated The blades that the blade runner used provided no advantage. Next you can identify as a clean athlete and that makes you exempt of testing and pardons you of past PED use. Put lance back on the podium if he identifies as a clean athlete. Total crackers! Our leaders are devoid of logic.

data based rules wrote:

What's Going On Here? wrote:

So, if Semenya developes the endurance and starts dominating the 5000, then the IAAF steps in and makes her take hormone suppression meds like the requirement for her in the 8 & 15?

As stated above, the IAAF had studies and data to support their rule on testosterone limitations on the women's mid-distance events. They did not have similar data for races above 1500M and were rightfully concerned that if they made their rule cover all women's events without supporting data, that the CAS would throw out the rule. I would expect that as soon as they can acquire data to support what anyone with common sense and a little bit of biology knowledge already knows, they will expand the rule to all women's events.

Thanks for helping clear things up.

Caster is like an above average high school boy. An above average boy in the 800 will destroy the women. An above average boy in the 5K will not.

A little off note:

In Semenya's interview after her race, I didn't see the 'wall between the US and Mexico' issue coming. It came out of the blue.

Makes no sense! Next yr when a XY 95 pound male runs 28:45 we'll go through this all again? Of course their is an advantage.

*there

WEHYWERHWERW wrote:

Why would she be allowed to run longer distances without suppressing her levels? Surely testosterone is advantageous for longer distances as well?

IAAF says no.

The Court of appeals stated that they had not yet seen enuff evidence to support the conclusion that women are helped in long distance races if they have more testosterone. I shite you not. Maybe they ought to look at women's times against men's times at the elite levels.

fisky wrote:

What's Going On Here? wrote:

So, if Semenya developes the endurance and starts dominating the 5000, then the IAAF steps in and makes her take hormone suppression meds like the requirement for her in the 8 & 15?

No. The IAAF has a very limited database of top-level athletes with DSDs work with. As a result of the small database, the IAAF could only "prove" that high T affects the 400-1500m. Of course, anyone with half a brain knows that T helps in shorter and longer distances. Otherwise, it wouldn't be on WADA's banned list of substances.

However, Semenya appears to be a 400/800 type runner. In spite of her testosterone advantage, she appears to lack the other genetics to be a great 5k/10k runner.

Semenya also lacks the genetics to be a great 800 and 1500 runner too.

That's not the point if someone who is. XY wins gold next yr in the 10,000m it won't be pretty. Also, how exactly did CS run legally in the 800 today if her appeal was denied?