Caster Semenya Loses Appeal

"Not a Caster Attacker" as you call a WOMAN "he" and "his" because you don't agree with what her gender. News flash, Caster is a woman. I'm tired of this crap constantly being on here and brojos are part of the blame. It's one thing to question the high testosterone, but to call into question one's sex is wrong and it's tolerated too much on here in my opinion.

The Brojos are complicit in all the crap they refuse to police on their message board. It is a cesspool of racism and misogyny.

Of course when you point this out your post gets deleted, the brojos if they respond at all act all offended, and you might get banned. Meanwhile they refuse to take any actions at all to stem the tide.

I'm just curious what your definition of "female" and what your definition of "male" is based on? Can anyone, in your view, call themselves either or and compete in either category? If not, then where do you draw the line? Thanks.

Crazy how some of the same people that just days ago were celebrating Kipchoges domination because of his unfair advantages (insane talent, perfect form, “built for the marathon”) are so quick to hate on Caster for HER “unfair” advantages. Wake up. Genetic advantages are how gold medalists are made.

For those of you that want different categories for people like her, how many categories? Do we need to go ahead and make a different category just for 2:01 maratthon guys? When will it ever be enough for you people??

this 'woman' has internal testes and a physiology markedly different from that of her female competitors. Just look at the pictures. The fact that three 'women' like this took the podium tells us everything we need to know.

good decision by CAS, a victory for us real feminists.

Razor’s Edge wrote:

So, she shaved for nothing? Damn shame....

She became one of the richest and most famous women in her country for the cost of a daily shaving kit. Great ROI.

Semenya defender wrote:

You all have such small and hateful opinions. I don't see how letting Caster Semenya and other women like her compete in their natural state is any different than the naturally tall basketball players in the NBA or WNBA, the naturally petite gymnasts, naturally fast or strong NFL players, etc. This is the way she was born, and this is the way she was created. It is her gift and we are not letting her use it. She isn't taking artificial testosterone and she isn't doping. She has done nothing wrong, and we are punishing her because of the way she was born. Please just take a step back and think about that. Think about what changing her natural hormone balance could mean for her long-term health and well-being.

Her "gift" doesnt mean she has a superior right to compete in the womens classification.

Either define the line of "female" biologically, or otherwise be prepared to let anyone compete as a female based on their personal declaration of "female". AS IN ANYONE WHO DECLARES THEMSELVE'S A "GIRL" IS A GIRL.

Anyone.

.....If Caster can compete as a girl then any marginally talented 800 meter male competitor with a 1:52 should be able to compete as a female also, set records, and win the Oly's and World Champs simply by declaring "she" wants to compete as a girl.

Biology matters if there is to be mens and womens categories. Otherwise just have one categorie including all. Can't have it both ways.

anyone in touch with hoka? why do they support this site?

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Going further, to illustrate the illogic of arguments made in support of Semenya, I will say this: I also believe that people expressing normal male external genitalia, but who have female levels of T and have developed essentially as a woman, should be permitted to compete against women.

Oh you are such a brave keyboard warrior. You are a pOS. You can compete in the sub-human category

So should we just have one category for everyone then? Were we going too far to make a special category for women?

Looks like a man

Acts like a man

Runs like a man

Has male testosterone

Has Testes

I’ve always wondered who exactly says he is a female except him?

kekistani wrote:

this 'woman' has internal testes and a physiology markedly different from that of her female competitors. Just look at the pictures. The fact that three 'women' like this took the podium tells us everything we need to know.

good decision by CAS, a victory for us real feminists.

Why are you questioning her sex? The decision ruled she needed lower T levels, not call into question her sex. She is still allowed to compete with women right? Which means she is a woman.

usnspecialist wrote:

Full details to be released at a later date, but here is the 2 page statement CAS put out now in siding with the IAAF.

https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/1123529141918339072

Not only this , but corrections to Medals at the past Olympics should be reviewed in the "women's 800 m "

Hobby Yogging wrote:

Why are you questioning her sex? The decision ruled she needed lower T levels, not call into question her sex. She is still allowed to compete with women right? Which means she is a woman.

cuz he has more markers of masculinity than of femininity

By today's rules, biological males are allowed to compete with females, so no, being allowed to compete with women does not prove you are female.

shifting burdens wrote:

OLD SMTC SOB wrote:

I'm not interested enough to pay $37.00. The abstract does not really answer my questions, so I'll search around to see if I can find it elsewhere. Is that the only study that was utilized to formulate the rule?

It's the main one, but I think there were a couple of other papers in support.

If you can't find the paper online and can't use a library, you can write to one of the authors (or tweet them) and ask for a copy of it and they are free to send you the complete article. Most authors are happy to do so. I have done this for quite a few published articles but usually just go to the library and use a terminal there.

Hahahaha I don't have "OLD" in my screen name for no reason. Never tweeted, used instagram, etc. My MO when I was a practicing researcher was to use a publication called "Current Contents", as this was even before the internet. It had the contents of the bulk of the journals and one just had to drop a card in the mail to the primary author to request a copy of the study you were interested in. The hospital I work at does have a medical library however, but its teeny tiny. Perhaps if I'm so motivated I'll wander over there and hassle the librarian.

The entire point of having men's and women's divisions separated is because of the obviously difference in performance as a result of different physiology.

Intersex individuals don't neatly fit into either category, but if there is an apparent performance "bonus" for intersex athletes over female athletes, they don't really fit the purpose for which the women's divisions were created.

You kind of have to "round up" to the most applicable category to not be creating an advantage, like you do with weight classes.

Razor’s Edge wrote:

YMMV wrote:

She became one of the richest and most famous women in her country for the cost of a daily shaving kit. Great ROI.

In other words, she had the balls to ride out the storm.

Informed debate. Thanks, Letsrun!

22twos wrote:

1. I’m happy with the ruling

2. I feel terrible for what Caster has gone through

3. I feel for the girls that have finished behind her and missed out on life changing opportunities

4. None of these things are mutually exclusive

+1

Caster is not a "he," she has external female genitalia and has been raised as a woman her entire life and choses to identify as one. That being said, she has an unfair advantage given to her by having XY chromosomes and extremely elevated testosterone. Normal women have testosterone between 0.12 and 0.79 nM/L, normal men are between 7.7 and 29.4. The IAAF and CAS agree that women should be below 5 nM/L to compete, more than 5 times as great as the females with the highest levels. This shows how the "tall basketball player" analogy fails, because there is no such thing as a basketball player that is 30 feet tall (5x6 foot). Caster should have to reduce testosterone levels to compete against other women because otherwise it is the equivalent of a 30 foot tall WNBA player. That being said, all of the horrible people on here saying that she is a "he" and that there are only two possibilities of gender or sex clearly have no idea what is going on with caster's anatomy (try googling "intersex"). It is still possible to feel bad for Caster. Unlike doping cheats, she did not choose to have this competitive advantage so it is unfortunate but necessary that she needs to suffer a penalty from it.